6.684 Billion People, 30 Amur Leopards...

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Altaru

Now, please, what do you say to that?

I say good for you .

A couple things... You really shouldn't talk about you being some sort of killing machine online, it makes you sound ridiculous... kinda like how a 12 year old threatens people on online games.
Secondly; If I thought that ONLY killing ability made someone superior I would have either stayed in my home country and lived in violence, or joined the army at some point in my life..

Lastly, you should know that killing them all was more about our brain capacity i.e. intellegence etc. Since, if we (one or two of us) were put in the wild with nothing, no weapons etc, and no hunting experience, and we came up against some dangerous animals, i'm pretty sure we'd die... We are not able to kill without our tools. Therefore, we are superior, because we would in fact be the "hunted" in the wild, and now we have become the hunters due to our ingenuity... As a species, we have "evolved" enough to be superior. We learn and adapt (in many ways, including weather conditions) faster than any other creature... So, in the wild, that is ideal.

So really, you can't say if you can kill me or not because you have weapons... You don't know how smart I am... Kinda like BUSH vs Bin Laden... Bush has access to all the weapons in the world, but I'm pretty sure Bin Laden would be superior and be able to kill him far more easily

[Henbaka]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

We are at the top of the food chain, no? I agree with that, and that as a notion of superiority, but not as a notion of divine right and outstanding value; which is what I think others are taking it as. The life of any animal that has concern for its own welfare is just as valuable as a human life. There is nothing that says otherwise accept for the opinions of individuals. Of course, this is my opinion, so I would be more correct to say value is in the eye of the beholder, or value is only of importance when it is recognized by that individual and only to him and no others. But I am again alone on that view.

I am digging at uncontrolled human expansion that sees the death of the majority of animals on this planet. Not superiority.

"notion of divine right and outstanding value" Noone ever said that (if they did and I missed it, then I agree, that is wrong).

I do agree with you about the value of animals' lives. I was merely pointing out how things are in the world today.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Not really. The capabilities of human strength is far greater now. Before people were exposed to hardship, so they were on average stronger, yet lived only half as long. Now days the average height of white people has risen almost a foot in length and believe you me, the weightlifters we se today would not be recognized as humans were they to go back in time a few hundred years.

The potential is there like never before, it is just most people do not use it.

Again, I was talking about average human strenght. As technology improves, less physical work is needed, and as such in average, less physical strenght is needed. You say yourself they were on average stronger? The lifespan isn't relevant here.

Average height has risen, yes.

Weightlifters are stronger today, of course. I never talked about the peak human capacity, but of average strenght needed (and thus the strenght that exists) of average humans in today's society. Also, I don't think it's fair to attribute the superior performance the athletes of today (comp. to 100yrs ago or so) to only evolution. Think of how improved training procedures, food supplements etc. are today. But again, that is besides the point.

[Acidreptile]

Animals have value.Humans are nothing but a animal specie.So humans have the same value of all the other species.No more no less.Only the same.

[Shanis]

I wouldn´t say they are cute like little cats or dogs or something like that, but they are impressiv! Maybe they are cute when they are little babies At least Tenchu is right, they have to survive I want to show them my children (if I get children someday) or at least further generations!

[Fooflowers]

not really cute, but then again whats not cute to me is cute to another person

[Henbaka]

[How the hell do you delete a post?]

[MissMisa]

Originally Posted by Henbaka

[How the hell do you delete a post?]

It seems you can't. Most just put [post deleted.], like that.

[Altaru]

Originally Posted by Henbaka

Now this wasn't aimed at me, but I'll comment on this (bs) first. One could say you are "superior" to another human by nature's standards if you can kill said human. This means that in the event of do-or-die, where it was either you or him/her, it would be you.

To begin with, it's not "do-or-die" situations that we humans are killing off species for. A "do-or-die" situation would be killing the animal for food because you have to, and if you don't you will die, or the human is being attacked and has to fight back. I have no problem with that, because it's nature, but humans don't generally eat or get in fights with Amur Leopards, now do they? The only reason the amur leopard is dying is because it suits our DESIRES, not our needs. We don't need another 6.684 billion people to be born, but since none of us can resist the urge have our "fun," there will be eventually.

Originally Posted by Henbaka

But that's not what we are talking about here, so it's irrellevant. We were talking about different species, not superiority amongst a certain species. I don't think you got either, that when we talked about superiority (atleast when I did), we meant superior as in this species survives, and that one doesn't. The ultimate outcome. This is not the "superiority" one means when they feel they are more intelligent, more beautiful, more successful than someone else. I don't feel humans are "more successful" than species like this leopard. We have just evolved very differently.

Please excuse the Matrix reference, but it fits here. Humans are like a virus that takes over an available body. We move in, infect, procreate, destroy, and move on. Eventually, we run out of places to go because we've killed our host, and we die ourselves, or we transfer to another host body and do the same thing. Until we run out of available hosts, that is.

Temporary superiority, long-term inferiority, and, despite the fact that noone wants to see things that way, it's the inevitable truth.

Originally Posted by Henbaka

I hate us too for bringing so many species to extinction. But this is just ridiculous. Would you start with yourself?

Porbably end with myself, seeing as how the majority of the human race isn't going to eliminate themselves personally.

Originally Posted by Henbaka

Not really. Yes, we fuck shit up. Yes I too hate that we are so many, and that it's really going downhill. But we do survive. I'm sorry but, in nature the strongest survives. Currently, that is us, and that's why animals die out and not us. By strenght I don't mean such stuff as physical strenght or agility, but also the skill and intelligence to build structures, weapons and tools that enhance our de facto strenght. This is how it is.

See above comment about TEMPORARY superiority.

Originally Posted by Henbaka

However, as we also have the intelligence to think about the negative effects and consequences of our actions, I really really think we gotta learn how to do that better. By that I mean that we should by now be intelligent enough to think of ways to live that does not involve making the earth uninhabitable for us or other animals, or drive other species to extinction for no reason.

Unfourtnately, so many of us don't, and that's why the human race is an inferior species. For being the intellectually superior species, we sure are rather ignorant and stupid.

Originally Posted by Henbaka

Again ridiculous. A person with the mindset of saving a human before an animal would do so, and before AH made himself known to be evil, they would have saved him. Where to make a distinction? Easy, every human (well most) has standards by which they judge people to be good/evil/assholes/stupid/intelligent/whatever. This person would simply decide if AH(or anyone else) was worth saving by their standards.

To begin with, where do you get off being able to make the decision of which human is worth more than another? You're not god, and you're not a lord or king. You're simply another human, therefor you have no divine rights by any standards, despite your belief that you do for some reason.

Also, by your own "survival of the strongest" standards, you should leave both to die. Be it a starving child, or a corrupt dictator, or an Amur Leopard, you should leave them to die because if they're dying in the first place, then they CLEARLY aren't the strongest, now are they? After all, you're not dying, therefore, you are strongest. If "survival of the strongest" is natures plan, then saving any of them is messing with that plan.

Not to mention, why bother saving the starving child, if they can't save themselves? If you save them now, they'll grow up believing that they can rely on people to save them if they reach a certain point. By saving them now, you're killing them later anyway...

Again, temporary superiority in play.

Unfortunately, because humans have the whole emotional aspect effecting their thoughts, we place more value on one human life than an entire species of animals. Why? I'll never know. There are apparently 6.684 billion other humans (and counting) if that one should die.

Even if 8 people die out of evey thousand, there's another 20 being born to take their place (according to the CIA 2008 estimates), so letting that one starving child die isn't going to make a world-wide difference, 'cause he'll likely be replaced within the second. However, letting an entire species die could, and likely will, have an enourmous impact.

And it would ALL be the fault of human beings. Not nature, not god. Humans. Would you want to carry the weight of that on your shoulders? Of course not. That's why the majority of the human race, yourself included obviously, just shrugs the facts off by using the "superior race" card.

Great... And I'M the heartless one.


[quote=noodle]A couple things... You really shouldn't talk about you being some sort of killing machine online, it makes you sound ridiculous... kinda like how a 12 year old threatens people on online games. [/qoute]

It's making a point, don't patronize me.

Originally Posted by noodle

Secondly; If I thought that ONLY killing ability made someone superior I would have either stayed in my home country and lived in violence, or joined the army at some point in my life...

And yet it's what you said. Think before you speak/type.

Originally Posted by noodle

Lastly, you should know that killing them all was more about our brain capacity i.e. intellegence etc. Since, if we (one or two of us) were put in the wild with nothing, no weapons etc, and no hunting experience, and we came up against some dangerous animals, i'm pretty sure we'd die... We are not able to kill without our tools. Therefore, we are superior, because we would in fact be the "hunted" in the wild, and now we have become the hunters due to our ingenuity... As a species, we have "evolved" enough to be superior. We learn and adapt (in many ways, including weather conditions) faster than any other creature... So, in the wild, that is ideal.

Being able to survive in the wild is one thing, but destroying the wild so we don't have to is a totally different idea. Most humans take our own evolution for granted, and wouldn't last seconds out in the wild even WITH tools should they have to.

We're not superior. Not anymore. Our ancestors, the cave men that discovered fire, the first hunter that made a bow and arrow. THEY were superior. Anymore we're just afriad of what would happen if we WEREN'T superior, so instead of looking at the truth and continuing our advancement, we maintain our condescending air towards all the other creatures of the world and slowly rot.

Temporary superiority once more in effect.

If everyone was like the eco-friendly scientist, looking for ways to advance our society and right the wrongs we've commited without making even more wrongs, then we would still be superior.

Unfortunately, that utopian dream has yet to become a reality, and instead this world is full of ignorant fools who live life for their own satisfaction, no matter what must be destroyed to achieve that.

THAT is why we are an inferior species in the long-term.

Originally Posted by noodle

So really, you can't say if you can kill me or not because you have weapons... You don't know how smart I am... Kinda like BUSH vs Bin Laden... Bush has access to all the weapons in the world, but I'm pretty sure Bin Laden would be superior and be able to kill him far more easily

Then why hasn't he? Because Bin Laden's honestly nothing more than a coward, but I don't want to get started on the whole terrorism debate. That's something for another topic.

(Note: I'm not saying Bush is the sharpest knife in the drawer either, though.)

I didn't say weapons were the only reason, I also noted that I have a talent for watching people, figuring out patterns, and making plans. If weapons were the only factor that make me superior, then there are plenty of people who beat me out.


Looking at things from a nature standpoint, for every ONE human you save, you're introducing another natural predator into the earth. A natural predator that has no predator of its own. Therefor, it is likely to survive. As the predator (human) population goes up, the prey (crops, food animals, etc.) population goes down. Slowly, but it does whether you believe it or not.

Eventually, the amount of prey available reaches a dead point. It can no longer sustain the number of predators using it. The human population has to find SOME way of going down, or risk going extinct itself. People start dying of starvation.

Because you saved that one person, no matter how small an effect he/she had, they had an effect in reaching that point. In the end, saving that person ended up dooming the race.

Facts.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

That is more theoratical bullshit that is vacant from reality.

Why is a collective intellect the only valueable skill? Answer me that.

I am not saying we can not do more than other species, but you seem to think just because we can we are automatically way above everything else, like we are Gods above them like God is to us. That is not true. If that were true and I was to ask you "Why?" you're answer could only be "Because I say so".

Not until you stop giving steriotypical replies that all religous people give.

And what do you think I think about you then? You think you are some sort of divine being on this planet with universal right; something entirly of your imagination.


Noodle, only an idiot thinks you can argue things like evolution without bringing up religion. That is why Kanji banned the thread, because they are two sides of a single coin for the debate. On intelligent level most things are like this. If we want to argue about the value of an animal I already know what the result here wil be at the end of the day. Why? Because you are governed by a predetermined belief that can not be changed. You are not here to learn and evolve, you already know what winning is and where the goal lies. Animals dont have souls, so I cant change your view.

It is you being arrogant getting up me every time I mention this because you can not accept the impact this determines on your life and you seem so illusionally sure that you are in this to learn, but you are not.

Theoretical BS? Seriously, answer my question... Are you on Crack?

Umm, a collective is more is the valuable skill here because we're talking about "species" ...

wtf are you talking about? Seriously, sit down and reply to what I say and not what you think I say... F**k, you really are an obnoxious idiot... Humans are superior because we CAN do more than any other animal... This has nothing to do with me saying we're gods of the planet or whatever it is you're thinking about...

Haha... Stereotypical replies that all religious people give... Dickhead, you agreed with Ivionkey at the start of this thread and he's a religious person... Seriously, just stop trying to defend yourself when it comes to you being absolutely clueless and automaticaly saying it's because I'm religious. If you can't debate without thinking I go into a religious book to get the answer, then don't debate...

haaaaaaaaaahahahahahaaaaaahahahhahahhahahahaaaha...dude, I love it when you make me laugh... You say that you're the most superior person on the planet then blame me of implying I was a divine being?

Once again you prove to be a total idiot... Tell me, why is it evolutionists DEBATE evolution even though they are atheists? What you don't seem to get is that you're the one that's actually got a predetermined belief in you. You think you're learning, but the truth is, you're just brainwashed into thinking you see facts in front of you. Hence why you haven't managed to provide me with any proof of evolution apart from "i see some skeletons, they're slightly different... Eureka!!!!! THEY MUST be related... Wow, I'm a genius...."

haha... dude, you're right... I'm not here to learn from you... You simply cannot offer me anything that I didn't know already. If you actually every read or listened to anything I ever wrote, you'd realise that I said right at the start of the evolution thread that I believed in certain types of evolution, and in fact, in another thread, I even mentioned that I used to believe in evolution until I started studying it properly in biology... ... Let me guess, you're gonna say I caught up on reading my holy book and realised it wasn't allowed

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Altaru

It's making a point, don't patronize me.



And yet it's what you said. Think before you speak/type.



Being able to survive in the wild is one thing, but destroying the wild so we don't have to is a totally different idea. Most humans take our own evolution for granted, and wouldn't last seconds out in the wild even WITH tools should they have to.

We're not superior. Not anymore. Our ancestors, the cave men that discovered fire, the first hunter that made a bow and arrow. THEY were superior. Anymore we're just afriad of what would happen if we WEREN'T superior, so instead of looking at the truth and continuing our advancement, we maintain our condescending air towards all the other creatures of the world and slowly rot.

Temporary superiority once more in effect.

If everyone was like the eco-friendly scientist, looking for ways to advance our society and right the wrongs we've commited without making even more wrongs, then we would still be superior.

Unfortunately, that utopian dream has yet to become a reality, and instead this world is full of ignorant fools who live life for their own satisfaction, no matter what must be destroyed to achieve that.

THAT is why we are an inferior species in the long-term.



Then why hasn't he? Because Bin Laden's honestly nothing more than a coward, but I don't want to get started on the whole terrorism debate. That's something for another topic.

(Note: I'm not saying Bush is the sharpest knife in the drawer either, though.)

I didn't say weapons were the only reason, I also noted that I have a talent for watching people, figuring out patterns, and making plans. If weapons were the only factor that make me superior, then there are plenty of people who beat me out.


Looking at things from a nature standpoint, for every ONE human you save, you're introducing another natural predator into the earth. A natural predator that has no predator of its own. Therefor, it is likely to survive. As the predator (human) population goes up, the prey (crops, food animals, etc.) population goes down. Slowly, but it does whether you believe it or not.

Eventually, the amount of prey available reaches a dead point. It can no longer sustain the number of predators using it. The human population has to find SOME way of going down, or risk going extinct itself. People start dying of starvation.

Because you saved that one person, no matter how small an effect he/she had, they had an effect in reaching that point. In the end, saving that person ended up dooming the race.

Facts.

You bring it upon yourself... You can't expect me to take you seriously when you go blabin on about how you can kill someone you don't know anything about...

The fact that I didn't say it was the only reason should've been a hint... And as mentioned previously, as we're talking about species, this is one of the most important points... I was also replying to our fellow retard, Tenchu... If you knew him at all, you'd see he's into violence etc, so Killing would be the think he'd understand... Me explaining the levels of communication we have, intellect, intellegence, ingenuity etc would've just confused him...

Dude, what are you talking about? I love how people jump into a thread and start putting words in my mouth... What the heck does destroying the wild got to do with anything I said? Secondly, not everyone is materialistic, so your statement about us not being able to survive in the wild is just stupid. MOST people would survive... The majority that wouldn't be able to cope would be the ones that are medically weak... i.e. have weak natural defence systems... low white blood cell count etc etc..

Right... cavemen are superior to animals and us... Thats a good one...

What the heck kinda superiority are you talking about? From what I understand, you're saying that we're inferior because we destroy the planet???!!! What's that got to do with superiority???

I'm starting to get tired of your babling about nothing... We're an inferior species to others because we seek instantanious pleasure? Dude, most predetors don't eat all of what they kill... So I'd say their waste makes them inferior too... Or are you gonna bring out some earthly natural balance of how the vulchurs get to eat the left-overs... of course... the predators do this on purpose to give food to the vulchurs

ahhahaha... you just totally missed the point there... The fight isn't Bush vs Bin Laden atm is it? It's US/West vs Taliban... The fact that the Taliban is still alive with their lack of technology suggests that their leader is smarter and "superior" to the wests leader... That's in Laymans terms for you.

Okay Leon or assasin guy... Whatever you say

I'm sure someone said this to your ridiculous logic... If you believe you this mumbo jumbo, would you start by killing yourself? Afterall, you're part of this digusting species that's infesting the earth and destroying, and according to you, the only way around it is to reduce the population... So, would you be the first to take the step required? If not, then I suggest you go keep these kind of theories in your little "I hate the world" Journal.