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09-13-2008, 10:46 AM

Im worried. What do people see in McCain? The man is a dirty old politician who if elected will shamelessly exercise the interests of his dirty old rich friends. Continued war in Iraq, absolution of our personal freedoms, exploitation of economic downturn. If he becomes the next president elect I will not be returning Stateside for at least another 4 years.
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Thumbs down 09-13-2008, 11:31 AM

Frankly I've grown so very tired of this thread. There is no real discussion going on here. With the exception of a very few, everyone has already made up their minds. What is worse is the way that they filter the facts. So many of you view the candidates with tinted glasses. You can neither see the good in the other parties candidate, nor the bad in your own. The world is not that black and white, and neither are the candidates. They all have their good points and their bad points. It is beyond my comprehension how you can be so sure of how anyone will perform as president. The world is just not that simple! These men and woman are not that simple!

There are real issues at hand that need to be discussed, but every one is too busy picking up the crap that slung from the campaigns. Well I've got news for you. If you choose to throw that crap also, your hands will be just as dirty, and you will smell just as good!!



The Honored of Valhöll are: Acidreptile: my spiritual brother, smilexfreak7: milaya moya sestra Tsuzuki: my dark goddess,
=Kanji: the eternal wanderer, Zenit: future world conquer, Michieru: self proclaimed mastermind of genius
and the rest of my family in the
~+VaMpiRe ClAn+~


Last edited by Odin : 09-13-2008 at 11:35 AM.
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09-13-2008, 06:46 PM

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Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Frankly I've grown so very tired of this thread. There is no real discussion going on here. With the exception of a very few, everyone has already made up their minds. What is worse is the way that they filter the facts. So many of you view the candidates with tinted glasses. You can neither see the good in the other parties candidate, nor the bad in your own. The world is not that black and white, and neither are the candidates. They all have their good points and their bad points. It is beyond my comprehension how you can be so sure of how anyone will perform as president. The world is just not that simple! These men and woman are not that simple!

There are real issues at hand that need to be discussed, but every one is too busy picking up the crap that slung from the campaigns. Well I've got news for you. If you choose to throw that crap also, your hands will be just as dirty, and you will smell just as good!!

Just as you believe the world is not the simple and the candidates are not that simple, do not make the mistake of thinking the people posting here are that simple.
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09-13-2008, 06:55 PM

I used to be an Obama supporter, but after Mccains speach and Palin's as well, they made interesting points while discussing the whole issues with taxes and else, and even though Obama has more charisma than Mccain, i really liked Mccains either ways.
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09-13-2008, 07:15 PM

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Originally Posted by Luciferos View Post
I used to be an Obama supporter, but after Mccains speach and Palin's as well, they made interesting points while discussing the whole issues with taxes and else, and even though Obama has more charisma than Mccain, i really liked Mccains either ways.
Which points were those? What about the taxes speech did you like?

The truth is that unless you are very wealthy, you will save more in taxes with Obama than McCain.

How McCain and Obama will change your tax bill - Jun. 11, 2008
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09-13-2008, 10:31 PM

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Originally Posted by MMM View Post
Which points were those? What about the taxes speech did you like?

The truth is that unless you are very wealthy, you will save more in taxes with Obama than McCain.

How McCain and Obama will change your tax bill - Jun. 11, 2008
You do understand, that the president has no real power to raise or lower taxes. He can only propose a plan to congress. In the end it is up to them to create the budget and any needed taxes.



The Honored of Valhöll are: Acidreptile: my spiritual brother, smilexfreak7: milaya moya sestra Tsuzuki: my dark goddess,
=Kanji: the eternal wanderer, Zenit: future world conquer, Michieru: self proclaimed mastermind of genius
and the rest of my family in the
~+VaMpiRe ClAn+~

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09-13-2008, 10:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Odin View Post
You do understand, that the president has no real power to raise or lower taxes. He can only propose a plan to congress. In the end it is up to them to create the budget and any needed taxes.
I do, Odin. But the tax plans they propose say a lot about who they support and where their priorities are.
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09-14-2008, 08:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SatoriOne View Post
Im worried. What do people see in McCain? The man is a dirty old politician who if elected will shamelessly exercise the interests of his dirty old rich friends. Continued war in Iraq, absolution of our personal freedoms, exploitation of economic downturn. If he becomes the next president elect I will not be returning Stateside for at least another 4 years.
Which rich friends? Are you aware which political party has the largest number of millionaires as members? Hint, it's not McCain's. The majority party seems not to mind the war in Iraq at all, where they all lying when they were elected on their promise to end the war and bring the troops home? You tell me. At least McCain's actions have been conistent with his words.

I don't like McCain, but I dislike him less than Obama. You can call him a dirty politician, but he's one of the cleanest you'll find (which isn't saying much).
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09-14-2008, 09:01 AM

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Originally Posted by MMM View Post
Which points were those? What about the taxes speech did you like?

The truth is that unless you are very wealthy, you will save more in taxes with Obama than McCain.

How McCain and Obama will change your tax bill - Jun. 11, 2008
Yes, rather than tax me, Obama will just tax my employer instead. And then when it comes time for a promotion or a raise, the money may not be there.

Everyone seems to forget that taxing the rich is the same as taxing the poor. Doesn't anyone here have the slightest grasp on economics?

Here's a non-political example. What happens when you raise the price of diesel fuel 25%? Most of us wouldn't care, almost none of us use diesel fuel in our cars. But the trucks, trains, and ships that transport the things we buy do. Eventually the 25% increase is made up for by increased shipping costs, which increases wholesale costs, which increase retail costs. All of us end up paying for that increase.

The exact same principle applies when the "rich" are taxed. The same rich who own the companies, businesses, or stores that we work for. If the rich do not make a profit, who pays? Those whom they can no longer afford to employ.

But, what does that matter? If we lose our jobs, then the government will use the extra tax money to help pay unemployment benefits. But those of you who have ever had to file for unemployment, you've probably found that it pays a fraction of your previous income. Just like Social Security, you'll be lucky to get a 10% return on all the money you were forced to pay into it over your working life.

It is not possible for Obama to tax our economy into prosperity. Not once in American history has an increase in tax resulted in a net increase in revenue. Not once. You may not have heard in the news, but Bush's trillion dollars in tax cuts actually increased revenues, they went up 20% just between 2004 and 2006 alone, despite the war, increasing energy prices, and the fall of the markets after September 11th, 2001. Revenue at the moment is about 18.2% of GDP, which is well above the historical average for the last 60 years, and Obama thinks it's not enough?

There are a lot of things wrong at the moment with the economy, the only thing that is correct is the current tax rate. The quickest ways to help the economy would be to stabilize oil prices, and to begin programs to limit speculation in the markets.

By the way, you are one of the "wealthy" if your household income is $80k a year or above. If you earn below that, you are already paying little to no taxes each year after deductions. Obama's tax increase is going to kick America's middle class in the crotch.
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09-14-2008, 09:03 AM

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Originally Posted by Sangetsu View Post
Which rich friends? Are you aware which political party has the largest number of millionaires as members? Hint, it's not McCain's. The majority party seems not to mind the war in Iraq at all, where they all lying when they were elected on their promise to end the war and bring the troops home? You tell me. At least McCain's actions have been conistent with his words.

I don't like McCain, but I dislike him less than Obama. You can call him a dirty politician, but he's one of the cleanest you'll find (which isn't saying much).
How many times do I need to give my "broken record speech"

Republicans don't like McCain.

Republicans hate Obama.

Lesser of two evils...

That's a great strategy.

But Obama is something different.
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