"White anti-feminist men in Japan"

[MissMisa]

Originally Posted by ivi0nk3y

Sorry but "Feminism" shouldn't exist. Syphoning yourself off from the rest of the species cos you are female?
Also who said anyone met only a few "radical feminists", which influenced their decision?

Yes there was a time when it was needed, just like many other organisations were needed. Now there is a saturation of "Feminism" which does nothing to help the female position anymore. The majority of people in the world know what is wrong and what is right, with regards to what rights Females should have. Perhaps it is needed in some countries but most, even third world countries, have no problem with female roles.
(I gotta exclude India here and perhaps even Saudi Arabia.)
Like I said, there shouldn't be Feminism, just an attitude to right any wrongs there are. The majority of it is just a "support group" for women who have lost boyfriends now and hate "men".

Feminists do not have to be women. There are a lot of feminists who are males too. I have already said many times in this thread - feminism is not MEN VS WOMEN in any way, shape, or form. Feminism is for the equality between women and men.

Let me take your sentance and replace it with something else:

'Sorry but "Black rights" shouldn't exist. Syphoning yourself off from the rest of the species cos you are black?'

The only difference is that the person is black and not a women. Do you disagree with black campaigners too? Do you think that they are also 'Syphoning yourself off from the rest of the species?' ''Feminism' is just a word to describe 'womens rights.'

There are many places in the world where women are still not equal. That is why feminism still exists today.

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

Feminists do not have to be women. There are a lot of feminists who are males too. I have already said many times in this thread - feminism is not MEN VS WOMEN in any way, shape, or form. Feminism is for the equality between women and men.

I'm for womens rights and opportunities and i'm no Feminist. I am just another person who wants justice in the world. Why should I label myself as a separate entity?

Originally Posted by MissMisa

Let me take your sentance and replace it with something else:

'Sorry but "Black rights" shouldn't exist. Syphoning yourself off from the rest of the species cos you are black?'

The only difference is that the person is black and not a women.

And why would you do that exactly when I already explained to you that each example has different merit?
Black Males & Females were taken as slaves from their countries, put into "Black Communities" and forced to live in attrocious surroundings. All within our "civilised" Western society.

Originally Posted by MissMisa

Do you disagree with black campaigners too? Do you think that they are also 'Syphoning yourself off from the rest of the species?' ''Feminism' is just a word to describe 'womens rights.'

Yes if there were no problems with Black people anymore, then I would say that those campaigners are not needed anymore either. I would say exactly what you accuse me of. If those campaigners (after the basic rights of "humans" were fixed), still wanted more, then these would be seen as unnecessary demands. What's left is Human rights, not Black rights.

Originally Posted by MissMisa

There are many places in the world where women are still not equal. That is why feminism still exists today.

Feminism doesn't do anything for those people. Various human rights organisations help those people.
You are human, not a Feminist. If you choose to be a feminist, you are just wanting to be part of a glorified wives club.
The rest of us can help with in-justice without needing to be stuck with a certain label.

[Wasabista]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Finally you get it! Maybe I wouldn't have to spend so much time on it if you would learn to respond what I actually wrote rather than further your agenda using my supposed position as a springboard.

Anyway.... Female chauvinism works for me I guess.

I'll just add that the examples you've given are more telling of the type of society you live in more than any female conspiracy if indeed they are accurate. (As I said, there are two sides to every story).

Well, yeah, I conceded your point right away. If your point is "the dictionary says so and so."

Problem is, what you call "radical feminism" is actually the driving force in feminism. As I proved above, it led to the FALSE but widespread belief that men are the main agents of domestic violence. It led to the Duluth procedures, which require police to treat all domestic incidents with the assumption of male guilt. It led to today's confiscatory policies on divorce, which generally hand the children and half the assets to the woman, regardless of who is the better parent and who earned the money.

These are problems that affect all of us, and were created by the feminist movement. If all you want to do is read the dictionary, up to you. Horses to water and all that. But I think Miss Misa posted the original article to get into a more substantial discussion of real social issues. The rest of us will get on with that, if that's okay with you.

[MissMisa]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

Well, yeah, I conceded your point right away. If your point is "the dictionary says so and so."

Problem is, what you call "radical feminism" is actually the driving force in feminism. As I proved above, it led to the FALSE but widespread belief that men are the main agents of domestic violence. It led to the Duluth procedures, which require police to treat all domestic incidents with the assumption of male guilt. It led to today's confiscatory policies on divorce, which generally hand the children and half the assets to the woman, regardless of who is the better parent and who earned the money.

These are problems that affect all of us, and were created by the feminist movement. If all you want to do is read the dictionary, up to you. Horses to water and all that. But I think Miss Misa posted the original article to get into a more substantial discussion of real social issues. The rest of us will get on with that, if that's okay with you.

Like I already said - Hitler was heavily influencial but it doesn't mean all germans are nazis. Radical feminists were highly influencial but it doesn't mean all feminists are radical.

The feminist movement have done amazing things that well outweigh the fact that people are misinformed about domestic violence. Of course it's a negative thing that people believe that - but you can't blame all feminists because of that. The media has a massive influence in how people think of things. How would people see the message of the radical feminists message? Through the media. They choose to broadcast the radical feminists message a lot more than the feminists one. Look what damage that has done to the reputation of the feminist movement - ivionk3y thinks they are all women who are pissed because their boyfriends left them, and you think that they are pointless and make everything worse. It's a real shame that nothing positive that they do is ever shown.

[Wasabista]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

Like I already said - Hitler was heavily influencial but it doesn't mean all germans are nazis. Radical feminists were highly influencial but it doesn't mean all feminists are radical.

The feminist movement have done amazing things that well outweigh the fact that people are misinformed about domestic violence. Of course it's a negative thing that people believe that - but you can't blame all feminists because of that. The media has a massive influence in how people think of things. How would people see the message of the radical feminists message? Through the media. They choose to broadcast the radical feminists message a lot more than the feminists one. Look what damage that has done to the reputation of the feminist movement - ivionk3y thinks they are all women who are pissed because their boyfriends left them, and you think that they are pointless and make everything worse. It's a real shame that nothing positive that they do is ever shown.

My aim isn't to blame all feminists for the ills of the world, or to suggest that all feminists are bad people. My mom's a feminist, and she's nice as can be!

My point is that a movement in any age is defined by its achievements. Feminism is no different.

As you point out, MissMisa, feminism has achieved great things. It brought women the vote, it brought them into the workplace, it brought them into the corridors of power. All good things.

But in the past 30 years? Seems to have lost its way. Whatever the views of individuals, feminism as a force for change has all but ceased to be a force for good. I've already outlined what I think have been the movement's main achievements over the past 30 years, and they don't look good. The quest for equality seems to have disappeared -- instead, the movement has become just another special-interest lobby, with the same aim as everyone else: More for us, less for other people.

Besides, as I said, I don't like the narrative. Where's the gratitude? After generations of protecting our women from harm, rushing into battle so our women can stay at home, hunting dangerous beasts so our families can eat protein, working in coal mines and construction sites, discovering medical procedures like modern obstetrics... and all the thanks we get is "women need men like a fish needs a bicycle"? A mendacious yarn about "thousands of years of oppression?" How about a thank you? How about "Thanks for your protection and support, we can take it from here"?

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

The feminist movement have done amazing things that well outweigh the fact that people are misinformed about domestic violence.

And you can't say that is the only negative thing they have contributed to society. I can easily blame current divorce rates and trends towards a non-existant family structure, on Feminism. It ignited the spark for women to go "burn their bras" and now it has become a part of society. There is a majority ratio of women to men on Earth and most of them (in developed countries), are unhappy because they have had their fun and now can't settle down because noone wants them. Of course Feminism isn't the only one to blame in that but it is definitely one of the blameworthy.
Like it has been said, Feminism has righted some wrongs but now it only exists to inflate the ego of unhappy women.
If there is a problem with how a woman is treated somewhere in the world, then a human rights organisation will try to help. They will do something, rather than just protest and cause more division amongst people.

Originally Posted by MissMisa

Of course it's a negative thing that people believe that - but you can't blame all feminists because of that. The media has a massive influence in how people think of things. How would people see the message of the radical feminists message? Through the media. They choose to broadcast the radical feminists message a lot more than the feminists one. Look what damage that has done to the reputation of the feminist movement - ivionk3y thinks they are all women who are pissed because their boyfriends left them, and you think that they are pointless and make everything worse. It's a real shame that nothing positive that they do is ever shown.

I already know the positivity they have done...
Also, it is the media that supported Feminism in the first place. Without the media and a specific countries backing, where do you think Female rights movement would be?

[MissMisa]

Originally Posted by ivi0nk3y

And you can't say that is the only negative thing they have contributed to society. I can easily blame current divorce rates and trends towards a non-existant family structure, on Feminism. It ignited the spark for women to go "burn their bras" and now it has become a part of society. There is a majority ratio of women to men on Earth and most of them (in developed countries), are unhappy because they have had their fun and now can't settle down because noone wants them. Of course Feminism isn't the only one to blame in that but it is definitely one of the blameworthy.
Like it has been said, Feminism has righted some wrongs but now it only exists to inflate the ego of unhappy women.
If there is a problem with how a woman is treated somewhere in the world, then a human rights organisation will try to help. They will do something, rather than just protest and cause more division amongst people.



I already know the positivity they have done...
Also, it is the media that supported Feminism in the first place. Without the media and a specific countries backing, where do you think Female rights movement would be?

Divorce rates are up for a number of reasons. Legislation has made it easier for people to get a divorce, before it was much harder. It was expensive and time consuming to get a divorce in previous years, so expensive that ordinary people would have never been able to afford it. You could say that the change in legislation was down to the protests by the feminist movement, making it easier for people who want a divorce, to get one. I really don't see the problem in that. Feminists don't force anyone to get a divorce. They are giving them that choice.

So feminism is blameworthy because it's given people [women and MEN too] the right to choose whether to leave a dead relationship or not? Well hey, that blame is fine by me!

I've already told you, inequality exists in other countries and feminists are doing things about it now. If you really insist it's whiney women moaning about how their men left them, well, all I can say is, that's a pretty ignorant thing to say.

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

Divorce rates are up for a number of reasons. Legislation has made it easier for people to get a divorce, before it was much harder. It was expensive and time consuming to get a divorce in previous years, so expensive that ordinary people would have never been able to afford it. You could say that the change in legislation was down to the protests by the feminist movement, making it easier for people who want a divorce, to get one. I really don't see the problem in that. Feminists don't force anyone to get a divorce. They are giving them that choice.

So feminism is blameworthy because it's given people [women and MEN too] the right to choose whether to leave a dead relationship or not? Well hey, that blame is fine by me!

Lol, like I said, there is more than one issue that Feminism has caused but it isn't entirely down to Feminism either. Can you only focus on one thing at a time or something?
Yea i'm sure most "dead" relationships are a reason for some people to leave that relationship. Then again it also gives them less of a reason to try. You have people left right and centre, doing what they want in their own selfish desire. Know what animal they're mimicing in that behaviour?
A Pig.
Problems also branch off other problems. There is adultery, sexual dependancy, teen pregnancies, more cases of badly brought up children, lack of a familial structure.. all linked to this problem of divorce rate.
If you don't see all this and how it is wrong, then you are the one who is ignorant here.
Also you don't need to remind me that MEN are also enjoying the benefits of following their base hedonistic agendas.
Noone said they weren't.

Originally Posted by MissMisa

I've already told you, inequality exists in other countries and feminists are doing things about it now. If you really insist it's whiney women moaning about how their men left them, well, all I can say is, that's a pretty ignorant thing to say.

And i've already told you that feminists can't do squat in those countries. There are better organisations out there with more productive ideas who don't label themselves as "Feminists". Like I said in one of my first posts, there are VERY few countries where Feminism can do anything anymore.
Also, yes I do insist a Feminist is a whiney woman who cries about how a man left her. As sad as their stories might be, those are the feminists I see around me, not the ones who drop everything to help females in other countries.

Labelling yourself in fruitless causes, create more divisions amongst people.
Right now female empowerment is not even an issue and so Feminism is not needed in the majority of countries, especially Western ones.
If you're a Feminist Misa, why are you? Did you lose your right to vote? Did you get beat by a spouse? Did you get abused physically by males?

On a side note, most males who DO harass women, are most likely used to it since they receive the "ok" from other women. Therefore they carry that attitude onto other women, thinking it's a socially acceptable thing to do. I would say 70% of the time, they'd be right in thinking that.

[MissMisa]

Originally Posted by ivi0nk3y

Lol, like I said, there is more than one issue that Feminism has caused but it isn't entirely down to Feminism either. Can you only focus on one thing at a time or something?
Yea i'm sure most "dead" relationships are a reason for some people to leave that relationship. Then again it also gives them less of a reason to try. You have people left right and centre, doing what they want in their own selfish desire. Know what animal they're mimicing in that behaviour?
A Pig.
Problems also branch off other problems. There is adultery, sexual dependancy, teen pregnancies, more cases of badly brought up children, lack of a familial structure.. all linked to this problem of divorce rate.
If you don't see all this and how it is wrong, then you are the one who is ignorant here.
Also you don't need to remind me that MEN are also enjoying the benefits of following their base hedonistic agendas.
Noone said they weren't.



And i've already told you that feminists can't do squat in those countries. There are better organisations out there with more productive ideas who don't label themselves as "Feminists". Like I said in one of my first posts, there are VERY few countries where Feminism can do anything anymore.
Also, yes I do insist a Feminist is a whiney woman who cries about how a man left her. As sad as their stories might be, those are the feminists I see around me, not the ones who drop everything to help females in other countries.

Labelling yourself in fruitless causes, create more divisions amongst people.
Right now female empowerment is not even an issue and so Feminism is not needed in the majority of countries, especially Western ones.
If you're a Feminist Misa, why are you? Did you lose your right to vote? Did you get beat by a spouse? Did you get abused physically by males?

On a side note, most males who DO harass women, are most likely used to it since they receive the "ok" from other women. Therefore they carry that attitude onto other women, thinking it's a socially acceptable thing to do. I would say 70% of the time, they'd be right in thinking that.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree then. There is nothing more I can say about this that I haven't already said.

There are many other reasons the divorce rate has increased. Many of which are not the fault of feminism. Neither is the result of divorce. There are disadvantages and advantages of divorce. It's not always a bad thing, sometimes, it's for the greater good. I think for most people, divorce is a last resort. They've tried. It's not happening. Without divorce, both parties would be trapped in such a relationship. Now, they don't have to be. If you think that choice is negative, then that's up to you. It's a subjective thing to look at and it depends on what you believe in. I'm not going to tell you what to believe.

I'm certain all the other bad things connected to divorce would have happened, with or without feminism. They are just the easiest to blame because of the ignorant view they are all women who hate men.

You can be two things at once, you know. Feminism is not a charity, a business, or anything physical. It's not like Oxfam or the Red Cross. It's just another word for a set of ideals that people can choose to believe in. If you believe in those ideas, then you can say you are a feminist if you want to. There will be feminists helping in those charities, doing things for other countries. And there will be women sat on their arse moaning about it. With one, comes the other. To say all women's rights ideals are useless, is not something I agree with.

And great, you've judged thousands of people by the 'the feminists I see around me.'

I am a feminist, in a way, amongst other things. When I say I am a feminist, it's the same as I believe in the rights to jobs and opportunities of women. That doesn't mean I hate men, or blame men. I don't. What has happened in my life is none of your business, frankly, and I don't have to explain those reasons to you.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

Well, yeah, I conceded your point right away. If your point is "the dictionary says so and so."

Problem is, what you call "radical feminism" is actually the driving force in feminism. As I proved above, it led to the FALSE but widespread belief that men are the main agents of domestic violence. It led to the Duluth procedures, which require police to treat all domestic incidents with the assumption of male guilt. It led to today's confiscatory policies on divorce, which generally hand the children and half the assets to the woman, regardless of who is the better parent and who earned the money.

These are problems that affect all of us, and were created by the feminist movement. If all you want to do is read the dictionary, up to you. Horses to water and all that. But I think Miss Misa posted the original article to get into a more substantial discussion of real social issues. The rest of us will get on with that, if that's okay with you.

Bullshit. Courts do not award women custody and half the assets automatically. At least not where I'm from. And where I'm from there are no feminists crying foul over this. Also there is nothing wrong with recieving half of all assets in my opinion considering the status of marriage as legally binding.