"White anti-feminist men in Japan"

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by ante

Feminism is dead, the new catchphrase is humanism, at least here in Sweden. That is mainly because a few screaming women, who do not want equallity, but infact dislike men, have given feminism a bad name.

A famous politician in Sweden actually proposed a "man-tax", where men should pay a tax that would go towards helping, and reducing men's violence against women. I don't even think it was a serious proposal, but it stirred up a shit storm and gave feminists a bad name. Other prominent feminists here in Sweden have said that all men are animals, who are all capable of rape at any time.

Affirmative action is another thing that pisses people off.

Some modern feminists have missed the point of the original movement. It's no longer about equal rights, it's about creating an uniformed society. That will not and can never happen unless we are all essential the same. As long as some people are smarter, some people are stronger, some people are prettier, we will not have a uniformed society. Embracing our differences would, in my opinion, be a better way to go, not trying to eliminate them.

Feminism exists within humanism and egalitarianism... not apart from it. The only difference is that the term feminism and feminist is used when referring to the topic of gender equality.

As for affirmative action? It pisses people off because people don't understand it. I know little about the history of race in Sweden (I have actually been to Sweden though) so whether or not it's appropriate for your country is not something I can comment on. But in America and NZ it is a necessity.

[ante]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Feminism exists within humanism and egalitarianism... not apart from it. The only difference is that the term feminism and feminist is used when referring to the topic of gender equality.

What I meant was, that people who earlier referred to themselves as feminists and fought for equal rights, now refer to themselves as simply humanists, because the word 'feminism' has been tainted by a few idiots. I think it's a good thing, though, to fight all kinds prejudice and not honing in on a specific area, work is needed everywhere.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

As for affirmative action? It pisses people off because people don't understand it. I know little about the history of race in Sweden (I have actually been to Sweden though) so whether or not it's appropriate for your country is not something I can comment on. But in America and NZ it is a necessity.

I understand why it might be needed, I really do. People aren't going to change their hiring/promotion patterns just because someone says so. It doesn't change the fact that it comes off as hypocritical when you in one sentence talk about equal rights, where you are judged by merit and not gender/race, and in the next you are asking for race/gender to factor in, IF they are a minority.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by ante

What I meant was, that people who earlier referred to themselves as feminists and fought for equal rights, now refer to themselves as simply humanists, because the word 'feminism' has been tainted by a few idiots.

Really? When studying feminism in relation to International politics we never used the term humanist to refer to some of the well known feminists throughout the past couple of centuries nor was the term considered derogatory or "tainted" by any means.

I simply don't believe you when you say feminists are so ashamed of feminism that they term themselves humanist. If that is the case then they misunderstand the definition of feminism as I've pointed out earlier in the thread. Ironically the social stigmatising of the terms feminist and feminism would be a concern for feminists. Many of the people who have commented in this thread alone, including women see it as a pro-female movement when in fact it is a gender equality and awareness movement.

Originally Posted by ante

I think it's a good thing, though, to fight all kinds prejudice and not honing in on a specific area, work is needed everywhere.

As do I.. but the term humanist has too broad a definition. Feminist and feminism are more convenient in the right contexts.

Originally Posted by ante

I understand why it might be needed, I really do. People aren't going to change their hiring/promotion patterns just because someone says so. It doesn't change the fact that it comes off as hypocritical when you in one sentence talk about equal rights, where you are judged by merit and not gender/race, and in the next you are asking for race/gender to factor in, IF they are a minority.

That's the thing though. It's not based on race/gender over merit. You have to be qualified for the job regardless of your skin colour. To assume you lost out to a black guy because of AA is racist because you're assuming that the only reason the black guy could get a job ahead of you is BECAUSE of AA. The black guy got the job because he was qualified.

[Wasabista]

Feminism has become a tainted term. It may have been an egalitarian movement at some point in the past, now it's just a lobby, like the oil lobby or the farm lobby.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

Feminism has become a tainted term. It may have been an egalitarian movement at some point in the past, now it's just a lobby, like the oil lobby or the farm lobby.

Yeah... you said that before but I showed you the dictionary... oh yeah I study subjects in which this is relevant too. If you walk into any reputable educational institution you'll find that it's not tainted in the slightest.

[jewelpre]

I didnt know that this would make a topic.

[Wasabista]

Ronin: And as I explained to you before, if you think looking up a word in a dictionary counts as intelligent discourse, I wish you the best and can do no more for you. If, on the other hand, you're interested in discussing real-world trends and facts on the ground, we can roll up our sleeves and get started.

Everybody else: The dictionary definition of "feminism" is "the belief that women are entitled to equal rights with men." But the term "feminism" has been tainted because its practitioners behave as if they want no such thing. So the dictionary definition is of no practical use in this case whatsoever.

[zed]

well I have read almost all the posts whith a couple of exeptions, (too long and redundant)
I've never done that in such a large thread like this one in and some parts it became a really good debate and in others just went in circles,

I wanted to post so meny times along the way but sombody else had already taken my position about the issue,
I wantto extend a little the topic about the impact that FEMINISM had in less fortunate countries

for example in Mexico, I'm going to talk about how it started.

Rosario Castellanos was the woman precursor of the feminist movement of the second half of the 20th century,
she knew about the movements of women in the US, Switzerland, Spain and other european countries that happened between 1920 and 1960,
and by the way in 1953 the right to vote of mexican women was recognized"

The feminism was founded in its bases as a analisis social, politic, philosophic and literary about about the roles of women trhoug time she was an intelectual proactive woman,
not only defending the rights of women, but also other opressed minories like the rights of equity and justice for mexican indians/indigenas she was a social fighter.

so my point is been feminist stand for equal rights for every body focusing on women.


.............this is why I like JF...............
.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

Everybody else: But the term "feminism" has been tainted because its practitioners behave as if they want no such thing. So the dictionary definition is of no practical use in this case whatsoever.

As I said before... that's bullsh*t.

But don't take my word for it. Again... go into any educational institution and you will find that the dictionary term applies and is discussed with that meaning in mind in the various humanities and social sciences.

[Enkidu22]

I have to agree with Ronin on this. I learned about feminism in national university (I study political science) and I assure everyone that feminism isn't viewed as tainted or corrupted in academic circles.

And about Sweden, it's one of the fev countries where feminism really reached all or almost all of it's goals (Sweden is ranked 1th in Gender Gap index for fev years straight). So maybe it's really not needed there anymore.