Japanese Whaleing/Retard Politics.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Actually I just read the article you posted in full MMM.

In it, it claims that

"Sea Shepherd Conservation Society acts in accordance with the U.N. World Charter for Nature. This charter provides for the enforcement of international conservation law by nation states, non-governmental organizations and individuals. Sea Shepherd Conservation Society is an anti-piracy organization and sinking pirate ships is sanctioned under international maritime law."

Those ships they sunk.. were apparently sanctioned by International Maritime law.

The Japanese ships of course are not pirates. But then again sea shepherd has not yet sunk any Japanese ships.

Again, this is from THEIR website. They call whalers "pirates". You will not find the word "pirates" used other places.

Here is from Wikipedia:
Sea Shepherd claims to have sunk ten whaling ships since 1979, referring to these ships as "pirates".[14] The claimed attacks include:
1979 – the whaler Sierra rammed and sunk in Portugal;
1980 – the whalers Isba I and Isba II sunk in Vigo, Spain;
1980 – the whalers Susan and Theresa sunk in South Africa;
1986 – the whaling ships Hvalur 6 and Hvalur 7 sunk in Iceland;
1992 – the whaler Nybraena sunk in Norway;
1994 – the whaler Senet sunk in Norway;
1998 – the whaler Morild sunk in Norway.

After sinking two of these "pirate ships" the International Whaling Commission revoked Sea Shepherd's observer status. In 1994, IWC Secretary Ray Gambell stated "the IWC and all its members ardently condemn Sea Shepherd's acts of terrorism.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

Again, this is from THEIR website. They call whalers "pirates". You will not find the word "pirates" used other places.

Here is from Wikipedia:
Sea Shepherd claims to have sunk ten whaling ships since 1979, referring to these ships as "pirates".[14] The claimed attacks include:
1979 – the whaler Sierra rammed and sunk in Portugal;
1980 – the whalers Isba I and Isba II sunk in Vigo, Spain;
1980 – the whalers Susan and Theresa sunk in South Africa;
1986 – the whaling ships Hvalur 6 and Hvalur 7 sunk in Iceland;
1992 – the whaler Nybraena sunk in Norway;
1994 – the whaler Senet sunk in Norway;
1998 – the whaler Morild sunk in Norway.

After sinking two of these "pirate ships" the International Whaling Commission revoked Sea Shepherd's observer status. In 1994, IWC Secretary Ray Gambell stated "the IWC and all its members ardently condemn Sea Shepherd's acts of terrorism.

Well either way... no charges were laid.

Innocent untill proven guilty and all that.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Well either way... no charges were laid.

Innocent untill proven guilty and all that.

Innocent until proven guilty? They claimed responsibility.

[Naoko]

Originally Posted by Acidreptile

I'll never understand the people that think it is ok to waste a life because of a meal.

I don't think it qualifies as "waste" if it's used.

I personally don't think I'd vie for a chance to eat whale, but if I ate it unknowingly and didn't object to the taste, then I can't say anything. I ate pig's blood once when my friend gave it to me. Had I known it beforehand, I'd have stared at her like she was crazy.

It's easy to look at what other people do in cultures completely different from our own and label it as "wrong" or "immoral." I think it's just one of those sensitive issues. I agree with the previous comments of them keeping it to a minimum and it's fine. They're international waters...just as much their right as anyone else's.

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I agree with the overall sea shepherd mission though. The only thing I think is questionable is the fact that they board the whaling vessels. Everything else they do though they are entitled to in my opinion. (Including bombarding the Japanese vessels with slime considering the Japanese use water cannons and acoustic weapons to attack the sea shephard ship).

I don't have a problem with them protesting, putting up signs, singing, shouting, trailing, etc.
In fact, I don't like the idea of whaling, myself; If that were all they were doing, I would easily root for them.

... But that's not the case. And I'm not convinced that the Japanese fleets set out many miles away from home to hunt anti-whaling protesters in order to shoot them with water cannons.

The anti-whaling protesters are the ones traveling with the intention to use their weapons on the Japanese. And that's where my support for them vanishes.


Edit:

Originally Posted by Naoko

I ate pig's blood once when my friend gave it to me. Had I known it beforehand, I'd have stared at her like she was crazy.

You mean you didn't stare at her like she was crazy afterwards???

[Thuglife]

"As far as whale consumption by the general population my wife says it is highly regional, being more popular in Yamaguchi prefecture and especialy Shimonoseki. Growing up in Kure, she said it was a regular part of school menus. However it is far less available now."



My school is in Yamaguchi-pref and my students ate whale last friday

[MMM]

Tenchu, the problem you and Ronin have is that you feel like you can excuse violent acts when it is for a cause you believe in. I feel separated from either side of the issue, really. I can see merits and holes in arguments on both sides. I would consider things like sinking ships, destroying facilities, ramming ships, boarding other ships for the sake of a greater belief to be terrorism. I do think they are trying to promote a message, or else they wouldn't be so overt in their activities.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

I don't think that is me.

My "problem" would be my view of equality. You believe people to be superior, and have more rights than other beings. I believe all things are equal, even bugs and plants. Of course, I must eat, so I'll eat anything. I must keep my apartment clean, so I will carelessly sweep the ants outside. But, at the end of the day, I do not put human life above anything else.

Of course, it is a natural part of our nature to be sympathetic to one another more than other species; it is a preprogrammed survival instinct, and I am also bound to that. So yes, I, sympathetically, will place fish above bugs, mamals above fish, humans above other mamals, but if you think I am going to place the traditional hunting habits of a nation above the value and existance of an entire species... get f**ked. Seriously, that is f*c*ing selfish.

Tenchu, don't tell me to get f**ked. This is how problems start.

I made no comment whatsoever about the merits or demerits of whale hunting. I made no statement whatsoever about human life value over or under any other species. I just said in my last post there are good arguments and bad arguments on both sides. That's not the part of the debate I have or will engage in.

My only comment was about the tactics of the Sea Shepherd. Do not attribute other's comments to me.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

Innocent until proven guilty? They claimed responsibility.

They claimed responsibility... but their defence was that it was lawful. They haven't been charged for unlawful behaviour so they are "innocent" in that regard.

Originally Posted by MMM

Tenchu, the problem you and Ronin have is that you feel like you can excuse violent acts when it is for a cause you believe in. I feel separated from either side of the issue, really. I can see merits and holes in arguments on both sides. I would consider things like sinking ships, destroying facilities, ramming ships, boarding other ships for the sake of a greater belief to be terrorism. I do think they are trying to promote a message, or else they wouldn't be so overt in their activities.

Well it's one of those grey areas for me. I really don't know enough about past contexts to say whether or not I agree with their actions then.

But when I see the sea shepherd getting things done NOW while the Japanese government stalls any diplomatic effort to get them to stop, it is very easy to feel sympathetic to the sea shepherd's mission and dismiss their less than appealing tactics.

The Japanese lost a lot of money here.... if they continue to pursue whaling they will continue to lose money. Add to that a global recession and the Japanese will soon have no choice to stop.

The sea shepherd's tactic's seem to be working. And while this issue is big enough for Japan to remain somewhat defiant... it's not a big enough issue for them to turn this into a major political issue on the world stage.

[Naoko]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

And what about whale rights?

From what I read of earlier posts, they're not hunting them to the point of extinction. I also stated that as long as they keep within that rationality, it shouldn't be a problem. It may as well be argued of every other living thing that is consumed on this planet. I won't go as far to say something like "Animals have the right to be tasty." as that's just ignorant and rude when this is obviously something that you and some others care very much about. However, I don't think arguing amongst each other on the forums is going to fix anything. ((Not aimed at anyone in particular, btw..that was a general statement.))

All-in-all, interesting topic. I'm curious to see how this turns out and if any action will be taken against the "poachers," but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.