Japanese Whaleing/Retard Politics.

[burkhartdesu]

I live in Alaska and the native Alaskan's are allowed to hunt for whale- but it's their main form of nutrition considering they are secluded from the rest of the world.

I think Japan is hunting whales more to prove a point than actual consumption

[Zitler]

Hi there!!!!

Well..This is a delicate subject..

I just wanted to express my opinion...

I know the culture of the Asian world, Ive in in Japan a few times, and its ok to eat fish... I believe the problem is based on the fact of the amount of fish & Whales hunted...

Its not like eating Cows or chickens, the are grown to be eaten and eating them has no impact in the today's polluted and wasted world.

But...with the whale is different, it is not an unlimited resource and they only give birth to a child at a time.

Last but not least, In don't think it be fair that only some countries in all the world fish and harvest and waste the Oceans that are property of all mankind.

See it this way. ¿have you the right to exterminate the Whales, White Shark or other species?.

I know your population has grown to fast. Congratulations to your great country, but you are putting far to much pressure on the seas.

Lastly...I Will introduce myself.
I am form Argentina, yes, yes, very far away form your nice country.....and...time to time one of your Killing machines appears hunting our resources , inside our territorial waters. We have a natural reserve for whales and we have polices that are letting the Franca Austral Whale to recover........ So...Why Our country of only 35M people really take care of not exterminate them and you came here to hunt them?.


Its understandable that you government want to feed the people...but, At what cost? Wont be much fair If you just rise you own whales?

Just my thoughts.

Cheers!

[Zitler]

Originally Posted by Jaydelart

They sink ships.

By doing so, they put people's lives at risk. Or maybe I'm being over dramatic.
In any case, should they continue until they finally manage to seriously injure or kill someone?

That's not a level of escalation you would hope for; it would contribute to the already steady stream of blood. But it's not beyond them to accomplish with the methods they are using, in my opinion.

The methods used are the only one available for them.
And the rules are usually bend and interpretated, for that reason the wolrd is full of lawyers.

In the past of some counties, people have been killed for smuggling drugs....
Others have come though difficult times with difficult desicions

Others has dropped atomic bombs in your country and now make movies about the evil axis and their torture to the free world.

Good and evil are just a point of view.

Killing animals and extingiting them is wrong.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

We have governments and laws and independant bodies set up to stop things like this happening. The Japanese spit on these and ignore them.

Not really. Again.. all Japan is guilty of is exploiting a loophole in a law made by an international body.

Australia recently ignored international law in the drawing up of Timor Leste's maritime borders. Borders which now give Australia a share in revenue over certain gas fields which would otherwise belong to Timor Leste.

If we're going to condemn countries for violation of International law I'd easily condemn the United States or Australia over Japan.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Just because someone is more bad then it does not excuse you.

What if I got a rocket ship and blasted myself to mars with a bunch of little girls and "loved" them all. There is no such thing as universal law, so I would have commited no crime. It does not make it right.

Regardless, the law bans commercial fishing. Right. They are fishing commercially. Simply saying you are doing it for research it what excuses them.

You say exploiting a loop hole, that really is a matter of opinion. Hunting whales for the purpose of selling them does not seem to fit in that loop hole for me, and many others.

All I'm trying to do is try and put some perspective to what you say.

I'm not excusing the Japanese government for what their actions but your angle of attack is not helpful.

And I'm saying exploiting a loophole because that's what they're doing. It's not a euphimism of any sort.

The whaling moratorium put into place the rule that commercial whale is prohibited BUT whaling may be carried out for research purposes and the by-product is allowed to be sold off.

I agree that the Japanese are violating the spirit of such a law as their research is questionable.

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by Zitler

The methods used are the only one available for them.
And the rules are usually bend and interpretated, for that reason the wolrd is full of lawyers.

In the past of some counties, people have been killed for smuggling drugs....
Others have come though difficult times with difficult desicions

Others has dropped atomic bombs in your country and now make movies about the evil axis and their torture to the free world.

Good and evil are just a point of view.

Killing animals and extingiting them is wrong.

Let me just repeat that I'm against whaling; We are basically on the same side.

However... I'm having some trouble with your argument.

You mention lawyers... But if laws were bent and changed as usually as you describe, wouldn't that mean there is some chance to win in a legal battle? If so, physically harassing whalers is not the only method of option.


People continue to compare this issue to war. In my opinion, it's a poor comparison.
They are not the same thing. Wars are fought involving human lives; our own families are affected by it; virtually our entire species is affected by it. This allows for a completey different set of attitudes and actions to exist.

Spoken bluntly, if World War 3 were to take place, the last thing I'd be worrying about is the poor whales. Killing whales, especially when it is, in some cases, being used to feed people, does not equal to war in scale.
It is a significant matter, of course. But it's misleading to compare it to war, nevertheless.

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

And what do you propose we do in this time of financial turmoil?

-- And attacking Japanese ships is something to do in this time of financial turmoil?

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

But it is commercial whaleing and they are simply saying it is not... it is retarded.

Welcome to politics.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

And what do you propose we do in this time of financial turmoil?

Hey, I got a great idea! Let's all tell the second largest market in the world we're breaking diplomatic ties with them, canceling our free trade agreement, and imposeing economic sanctions! This kind of pressure will surely work!

The laws are in place, they abuse them. Our governments are too cowardly to act, and even if they did it would have negative consequences for whomever did it.

Even if Japan WERE in violation of any law (they are not)....

The problem is that the issue of whaling is just not that big.

That and there is really no moral high ground we in the West could take concerning International law.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

You both have points, but I dont think either of them are really very strong.

We're not trying to destroy your argument. After all we're on the same side here. Just trying to refine it so that you can understand what the deal is.

[djevvy]

Place sanctions against Japan? I think you are very young as you appear to still have the innocence of youth. Believe me, sanctioning Japan is a lot harder than just saying it and the repercussions of such action, even if it were "do-able", I think you are totally unaware of. I applaud your convictions but I also think it might be a little indelicate to pursue this topic in the manner which you have on an (I love) Jananese forum but that is just my opinion and you are absolutely free to form your own however it does not hurt to consider alternative lines of thought. Good luck but your presentation needs a little refinement I think. Just out of interest I am anti whaling and the whole idea of my response is not to disagree with your content but the methods of your delivery. Have a nice day.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Why not? Should we also stop prosecuting shop lifters because law is taking the back drop?

Originally Posted by Tenchu

How many times? Commercial fishing of whales is illegal.

How many times? Japan are exploiting a loophole in the law which allows them to hunt whales for research purposes and sell off the by-product. They are doing NOTHING illegal.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Extinction of other species is not that big?

They're hardly being extinct. The argument concerning extinction is that if commercial whaling was resumed... they could very likely come close to extinction again.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Moral high ground... I think there is plenty. How about "You're all selfish pigs who don't respect the rule of law and rights of endangered animals". Get Obama to say that and we'd see what the response'd be.

God you're full of sh*t.

Japan aren't breaking any laws!

You're clearly talking out of your ass. You have no grasp on the reality or the complexity of the situation. Everything to you is so black and white.

I cringe to think that we're on the same side... because you do a poor job of representing it.