Japan intends to distance itself from US (politics)

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

4 countries i would love see work together are
Japan
USA
Russia
India

Why the Russians?

Of course it would be nice for all countries to work together.. but I'm assuming you're talking about containing China.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by noodle

How can you say China is meddling with Tibet? That's like saying the US is meddling with Texas

As for Georgia, it's a bit more complicated than saying meddling. Russias invasion was more of a retaliation, rather than a meddling. It was still the US that was meddling!

Not really.

If you believe that nations have the right to self-determination wherever possible and that Tibet is a nation like I do then it's nothing like Texas.

Retaliation? Georgia was fighting a civil war with seperatists. Those seperatists were backed by Russia. Russia was the meddler here when the forces they backed got hammered Russia stepped in.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Not really.

If you believe that nations have the right to self-determination wherever possible and that Tibet is a nation like I do then it's nothing like Texas.

Retaliation? Georgia was fighting a civil war with seperatists. Those seperatists were backed by Russia. Russia was the meddler here when the forces they backed got hammered Russia stepped in.

Why would you think Tibet is a nation? Tibet is simply one of many autonomous provinces of China, and it has been so for centuries, apart from a small period in which the English "meddled". For anyone that has studied anything about Tibet during this period, you'd know that at this time, life for the majority Tibetans was slavery.
I wonder why foreigners fight for Tibets' independence when it's "ruler", the Dalai Lama, doesn't want independence? There are mixed views of the Lama, but everyone knows he's smart and knows what is good for his people (lol). Obviously (used loosely), becoming independent from China would cause chaos and starvation in Tibet!


As for Gerogia, I'll take your word for it. Maybe I've mixed it up, so I will not say anything else just incase I'm inventing things.

[komitsuki]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Not really.

Not really?

If you believe that nations have the right to self-determination wherever possible and that Tibet is a nation like I do then it's nothing like Texas.

Tibet was Qing's important province because of "sinoized" Manchu ruling class who were Tibetan Buddhists of Dalai Lama's sect. Dalai Lama's political source was from Chinese rulers or Mongolian tribal leaders ever since Dalai Lama kicked out Sakyapa and other ruling factions.

Originally Posted by noodle

Why would you think Tibet is a nation? Tibet is simply one of many autonomous provinces of China, and it has been so for centuries, apart from a small period in which the English "meddled". For anyone that has studied anything about Tibet during this period, you'd know that at this time, life for the majority Tibetans was slavery.
I wonder why foreigners fight for Tibets' independence when it's "ruler", the Dalai Lama, doesn't want independence? There are mixed views of the Lama, but everyone knows he's smart and knows what is good for his people (lol). Obviously (used loosely), becoming independent from China would cause chaos and starvation in Tibet!

My father's side is from a Buddhist Chinese minority (Chaoxianxu, or Korean people living in China) for generations until they moved to South Korea in the 1940s... We all say that China has the rights over Tibet.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by noodle

Why would you think Tibet is a nation?

Tibet was Qing's important province because of "sinoized" Manchu ruling class who were Tibetan Buddhists of Dalai Lama's sect. Dalai Lama's political source was from Chinese rulers or Mongolian tribal leaders ever since Dalai Lama kicked out Sakyapa and other ruling factions.

The definition of nation is not the same as definition of state.

A nation is a self-aware group of people often based on things such as, (but not necessarily) language, history, territory; who alse have political ambitions.

Not all nations have their own states, some exist within states (peacefully or otherwise). Some examples

-Palestinians
-Native Americans
-Maori
-Zulu

Similarly some nations by their own self definition allow you to incorporate others

-Canadians
-Americans
-New Zealanders
-South African

Tibet is a nation as long as Tibetan people claim to be Tibetan. As long as Tibet wishes to be independent then I will support that.

The key here is not about what WE define them as. It's about how they define themselves.

Also I don't think the Dalai Lama wishes Tibet to be a part of China. When he came to New Zealand he came as the spiritual and exiled political leader of Tibet. He called for a free Tibet in many of his speeches.

I suppose a free Tibet could be one in which China still administers them but they still have their own political will under some sort of constitution perhaps (agreed to by the Tibetans of course, Tibet could become like Scotland is to England maybe?). But that hasn't happened yet and frankly, I believe that as long as the Communist Party is in power in China that won't happen.

[komitsuki]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I suppose a free Tibet could be one in which China still administers them but they still have their own political will under some sort of constitution perhaps (agreed to by the Tibetans of course, Tibet could become like Scotland is to England maybe?). But that hasn't happened yet and frankly, I believe that as long as the Communist Party is in power in China that won't happen.

Tibet is called the autonomous region just like Yanbien Autonomous Region for Koreans living in China.

And China hasn't been Communism since Deng Xiaoping and his successors. Even though there are 8 recognized minor political parties in China.

[nobora]

I say its up to Japan to decide whats best for them their own decision will change their future either way.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by komitsuki

Tibet is called the autonomous region just like Yanbien Autonomous Region for Koreans living in China.

Big deal. The North Koreans call themselves the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea.

Tibet is hardly autonomous. They had Chinese law imposed upon them since China invaded in the 1950's.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Big deal. The North Koreans call themselves the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea.

Tibet is hardly autonomous. They had Chinese law imposed upon them since China invaded in the 1950's.

Of course Chinese laws have been imposed... It's part of China and always has been. Autonomous doesn't mean independent. Look at Catalonia in Spain. Are you saying they don't have Spanish laws imposed on them?

Also, you should find out some more info on Tibet. Not all laws in Tibet are the same as Mainland China. For example, the one child policy doesn't apply to Tibet. That in itself, just proves that it's more autonomous than most westerners, and Tibetans abroad would like to admit.

They also have Tibetan as their co-official language with Mandarin (which is far better than places like Algeria where Berbers have been there since the dawn of time, but are unable to get Berber as an official language. The best they can do is make it a "recognised" language, which is just an insult to must Berbers considering, genetically, over 70% of Algerians are Berber).

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by noodle

Of course Chinese laws have been imposed... It's part of China and always has been. Autonomous doesn't mean independent. Look at Catalonia in Spain. Are you saying they don't have Spanish laws imposed on them?

Also, you should find out some more info on Tibet. Not all laws in Tibet are the same as Mainland China. For example, the one child policy doesn't apply to Tibet. That in itself, just proves that it's more autonomous than most westerners, and Tibetans abroad would like to admit.

They also have Tibetan as their co-official language with Mandarin (which is far better than places like Algeria where Berbers have been there since the dawn of time, but are unable to get Berber as an official language. The best they can do is make it a "recognised" language, which is just an insult to must Berbers considering, genetically, over 70% of Algerians are Berber).

Let me be more specific.

For Tibet to be truly autonomous, China would have to pull out it's military forces (look it up noodle... Tibet has only recently been part of China since the 1950's, any historical claim China has to it is as valid as Saddam's claim that Kuwait belonged to Iraq in 1991 as far as I'm concerned) allow the Dalai Lama to return (the exiled head of state and spiritual leader), and allow Tibetans to vote on it's future much like Timor Leste (formerly part of Indonesia) was allowed to vote for independence.

It doesn't matter what concessions the Chinese make. If the Tibetans didn't decide it for themselves and can't decide for themselves and if the general feeling in Tibet is toward independence... then the Chinese are oppressors.