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03-03-2009, 08:14 AM
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You can say that's wrong etc. etc. bad Chinese government, bad bad bad. But really you have no moral leg to stand on as NZ certainly wasn't populated with white people 700 years ago. Yes you can then say but that doesn't excuse the Chinese government etc. etc. what who cares. 
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03-03-2009, 08:15 AM
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China is trying to fix the education, infrastructure and poverty bit at the moment before letting too much democracy floating around. It wants to do it quickly, so democracy without these preconditions will be a hindrance in that case, hence ruling with an iron fist. The Chinese people are quite happy since economy is booming, the government must be something right. Now western part of China including Tibet hasn't boomed like the east coast but that's what infrastructure investment (tibetan railway) and invest west campaign are for. Tibetans looking at hans and their filthy money, i'd be rioting too! China I hope will address this economic disparity which is the root cause of all these sad faces. Just look at India for a classic case of democracy too early with no education.
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03-03-2009, 08:31 AM
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China is occupying Tibet. It has done so since the 1950's. China can do what it wants with it's own people. Just let the Tibetans decide whether they want to be part of this or not.
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03-03-2009, 08:33 AM
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03-03-2009, 08:41 AM
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China can do the next best thing for Tibet by giving them that same voice... and if the Tibetans overwhelmingly vote China out then China should oblige.
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03-03-2009, 08:47 AM
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03-03-2009, 09:07 AM
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Maori were cheated out of much of their land by the British. Maori were marginalised culturally in New Zealand society as recently as the 1960's. Much of our history is shameful. You've got no argument from me there. Can they vote Whites or anyone out? No... because the very set of laws that give Maori their political voice also protect other minorities from the White majority. The simple fact is that today Maori have a voice. The Tibetans do not. If you want to justify the Tibetan occupation by comparing it to other wrongs committed throughout history then that is weak. There is a popular saying in the English language "Two wrongs don't make a right"
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03-03-2009, 09:13 AM
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Oh even better, at least Chinese isn't even taught at Tibetan primary schools. That's for middle and high school.
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03-03-2009, 09:20 AM
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It's a cop out that your only defence is that "hopefully one day the Tibetans political will is realised" I find it funny how after all this horn-blowing about how China is so great... your defence in the end relies on China becoming a constitutional democracy, embracing the very values that Western nations are founded on or have been redefined according to.
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03-03-2009, 10:30 AM
Ronin, just a quick question. If Tibetans don't have a "free voice" as you put, then how were they were able to bypass the one child policy, and how are they able to have Tibetan as an official language for their provence (amoung other privileges which prove that they are more autonomous than the west and Tibetans abroad would like to admit)?
It's true that there is always room for improvement (this applies to every single nation, state or other, in the world! There is no democracy in the world where people TRUELY have the voice. This might sound ridiculous to someone so idiological as yourself, but it's my opinion, and I'm sure many others would agree), but you should think about what you're saying a bit. You belittle separatists in Georgia, but assume that the separatists (which are a minority) in Tibet are saints or are doing the right thing. Last years riots were not caused by the majority. In fact, many people that visit Tibet are suprised to find that many Tibetans are happy with their lives and are very content with the Chinese government. There was even a documentary a while ago which was made for BBC (I think) that was not aired because the makers of the documentary had the oposite opinion of that of the political agenda of the west (i.e. they weren't bashing the Chinese government non stop). I'll try to find this documentary on Youtube (if it's still there). Most of the Tibetans interviewed were extremely happy because life for them was not like prior to 1950's. i.e. 95% of the people were not slaves. Since China took back Tibet (which was illegaly claimed as a country by the British for a couple of decades), it gave the majority of people the ability to own their land and keep what they sow! Other things mentioned by the Tibetans was how they liked the fact that they had education, food, money, freedom of religion. There were however complaints, such as, sometimes they felt threatend by the Chinese army, that too many Han Chinese owned the shops, but funnily enough, hardly anyone mentioned the Dalai Lama. It only came up when questioned about it... Anyway, enough of the descriptions, I'll find the documentary and you can see for yourself. Btw, before you dismiss this documentary, you should also know that it isn't the only one of it's kind. Many foreigners that travel abroad like to keep video diaries. This also fit the same message of the documentary!
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