Japan intends to distance itself from US (politics)

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by komitsuki

That's the business level. I'm talking about the political level. And not all countries' friendly relationships are equal.

Even there are many countries in the world whose public or government don't like America and still willing to trade with America. After all, (petro)dollar doesn't know any boundary and America has the opportunity to do anything to do business with other unfriendly countries in a passive way.

But at least Japan is doing a very good job of unintentionally breaking Japan-American friendship. Of course it's from the ongoing self-collapse of a very USA-friendly party called LDP.

But why would Japan severe ties with the US to the extent of siding with China and Russia in the balance of power situation that makes up East Asia?

It makes no sense politically.

It's kind of annoying that the article claims that Japan seeks to move to a more multilateral foreign policy yet people seem to equate that to following the will of China as opposed to America.

Granted that Nyororin's post sort of ignited it based on her experiences with the party that is set to come into power and that's fine. But I think that's the only context in which such a discussion can be made.

We have to assume that Japan is a rational actor on the world stage (even if as Nyororin points out that it might not be). It makes no sense for Japan to ditch it's long standing, traditional ally for it to become allies with the Chinese and Russians so I don't know why you're even contemplating that.

Anyway I think this is a very wise move for Japan. The United States global influence is diminishing. Japan needs to establish itself as a regional power in Asia in relation to it's neighbours other than the balance of power situation it's currently in. We also need to remember that Asia does not consist of just China. What about India? A Japanese-Indian alliance could contain China (I guess.. I'm just thinking aloud now) and it makes more sense for Japan to become allies with India over China.

[fluffy0000]

According to 'The East Asia Forum' WSJ/NYT/Japanese tabliods devoted to political and economic issues especially concerning the upcoming 2009' general elections in Japan wether 'LDP' or 'DPJ' as far back as mid 2008' predicted that ruling 'LDP' was going to take a beating at the polls. Note
The East Asia Forum Nov.08' Post that offered that the best the 'DPJ' could offer was that they spelled their party name differently? No change wether
'LDP' or 'DPJ' wins due to lack of ideas or differences of both parties and lack of effective track record of Japans economic policy versus recession. note 1992-2001 recession named ; ' Lost Decade' that gripped Japans economy.
There is no evidence of diminishing US economic power in the original post you refered too 'Times Online' other than a quote from Yukio Hatoyama quote in same article?
Heres another excerpt from the UK -Guardian Feb.20/2009' Bill Emmott
A silver lining for JapanThe economic suffering here has been harsh and long, but at last political change is coming.
Any Briton who thinks the reason our economy is weak is that we no longer have much manufacturing should come to Japan, for the reason Japan is weak is that it has too much (20% of GDP, compared with 10% in Britain), making precisely the things that everyone has just stopped buying, such as cars and fancy televisions. - evidence of why 'LDP' in Japan will lose to 'DPJ' .
Below is Yukio Hatoyama excerpt mentioning the diff. 'DPJ' will make regarding foriegn policy
National Security-note use of word 'slightly more etc.'?
8. Second, the LDP is over-dependent on the United States in pursuing Japan’s
foreign and security objectives, but the DPJ is more concerned with striking
a right balance in Japan’s relations with the US and Asian neighbors, with
putting slightly more emphasis on the latter. In the economic policy area, the
DPJ distances itself from the excessive laissez-faire approach and values the
non-monetary worth of the economic wealth. This tells the DPJ’s position is
closer to the EU rather than to the US.
Yukio Hatoyama received a Ph.D. in Engineering from Stanford University located in U.S. also attended Tokoyo University in Japan.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by komitsuki

That's the business level. I'm talking about the political level. And not all countries' friendly relationships are equal.

Even there are many countries in the world whose public or government don't like America and still willing to trade with America. After all, (petro)dollar doesn't know any boundary and America has the opportunity to do anything to do business with other unfriendly countries in a passive way.

But at least Japan is doing a very good job of unintentionally breaking Japan-American friendship. Of course it's from the ongoing self-collapse of a very USA-friendly party called LDP.

I don't mean to offend proud America, but since I used to live in South Korea for a long time I do have a cynical attitudes towards America.

Yes i am American but im not one who defends my country blindly i give criticism when its do and a pat on the back when it due. The only thing that bothers me is when other dont take a real inward look at their own country and ask is my country really so much better than the one im bashing. Blaming and pointing fingers only goes so far we spend more time blaming each other rather than coming together to fix a problem that concerns us all.

I have no problem with Japan or any other country doing whats best for their country but i still dont see your thoughts as rational and i still dont see how it would benefit Japan in the long run.

Ronin4hire already mentioned it but political it still doesn't make sense. I do like his Idea about India playing a power role. What we need is a balance of power and i for one would be happy if my country wouldn't dip their fingers into everything around the world and learned to share power. There is a lot to be gained from working together. I cant see Japan breaking a Japanese-American friendship a reduced role of following Americas lead yes but a complete cut off it would not benefit them.

I respect your views i just dont agree with them. We dont know whats going to happen over the next couple of years. I think the US will pull itself out of this stick mess because that what we do history proves it. But weather we come out just as strong is debatable i just really would like more multilateral foreign policy from a number of countries.

[kirakira]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

I cant see Japan breaking a Japanese-American friendship a reduced role of following Americas lead yes but a complete cut off it would not benefit them.

Japan is not going to break off from the US, it's not like trust level amongst the far east Asian countries is at an all time high. I think from the article, it suggests Japan doesn't want to be US's lappy dog anymore, so it is seeking other countries to partner with to counter it but still US will be of significant importance to Japan for a long time to come.

It really all started when after listening to US's economic advice, Japan's economy got totally nowhere. It only just recovered after a spike of trade with China. But well that's now all reversed by the looks of it and everyone is pointing their finger (rightfully) at the US (again).

It has everything to do with bread and circus.

[Nyororin]

Just so no one wonders where they went, I removed a few posts that were involved in the mini-trolling episode a page or two back.

Granted that Nyororin's post sort of ignited it based on her experiences with the party that is set to come into power and that's fine. But I think that's the only context in which such a discussion can be made.

We have to assume that Japan is a rational actor on the world stage (even if as Nyororin points out that it might not be). It makes no sense for Japan to ditch it's long standing, traditional ally for it to become allies with the Chinese and Russians so I don't know why you're even contemplating that.

I was just pointing out the history of that political group`s policy and thinking. I don`t recall saying that Japan wouldn`t benefit from a different foreign policy, nor do I recall saying anything negative about China. I`m just more disgusted with the tactics of a party that says "world" and "all of Asia" - while in practice only catering to China and Korea.
That doesn`t even mean that they would be able to do such a thing if they came into power - actually, it spells doom for them really... As I highly doubt they`d be able to put any significant change into action simply because they would push for supporting China first and foremost - when they were saying something much more broad all along.

I`m all for letting go of the US`s hand and walking alone - but that isn`t what the history of that party says would happen if they really went through with what they`ve pushed for years... Offering piles of cash to be allowed to hold someone else`s hand. Whether that be China or any other country in the world isn`t important - it`s the entire concept.

[fluffy0000]

Japan did not and does not need economic advice from the US? Exactly where did this come from? As recently as 1992-2001 Japan experienced a decade long recession with 'stim pkgs' in 1996 alone total more than 6. The US economic policy does not translate well to Japan economy due to fact that Japans manufactering base accounts for 20% of it's GDP! (UK Guardian
Feb.20/2009 ) excerpt below from same article:
"reason Japan is weak is that it has too much (20% of GDP, compared with 10% in Britain), making precisely the things that everyone has just stopped buying, such as cars and fancy televisions."

[cridgit001]

I was wondering where they went

I also think that the US will pull them selves out of this economic hole, given that President Obama can follow up with even half of what he said last night, and

@Kirakira-Can you please explain how this is the US's fault?

[kirakira]

Originally Posted by cridgit001

@Kirakira-Can you please explain how this is the US's fault?

Subprime loans rings a bell. The US government actively encouraged high risk lending, i.e. leading $$$ to people to buy houses when they can barely afford to pay the repayment. When the interest rate go up, and housing prices stunted, a lot of these people were forced to default, and it pretty much went down hill from there. All of a sudden, the banks are finding that the houses they lend $300,000 have as collateral suddenly is only worth half as much even after they call the debt collector, and things just snow balled from there. This sort of stuff happens but not to this scale.

The other one is wild speculation of oil and other resources. $150 a barrel... geez.

Anyway do some research on the current financial crisis and everything will be clear.

[YukisUke]

The US is to blame because of our past mistakes. We've had an economic depression before, but not as serious as this. And to add to that, we bombed two of their cities (Hiroshima and Nagasaki). I think that event pretty much said that we are not to be trusted. PERIOD! I'm not angry at Japan for their decision. Why should I?

[kirakira]

Originally Posted by YukisUke

The US is to blame because of our past mistakes. We've had an economic depression before, but not as serious as this. And to add to that, we bombed two of their cities (Hiroshima and Nagasaki). I think that event pretty much said that we are not to be trusted. PERIOD! I'm not angry at Japan for their decision. Why should I?

Nah I dont think bombing of 2 cities is really that important to current Japanese situation. It has everything to do with the current economic crisis which snowballed from the US and now it is killing everyone. After Japan has suffered so much economically for the past decade and finally saw a glimmer of hope, now their economy has collapsed again (-12% p.a. for the last quarter), they've just lost a bit of hope from listening to the US.