Picked on for liking japan?

[manganimefan227]

Mine doesn't endanger me, just outcasts me.

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

This reminds me of one of my favorite exchanges between Andie (Molly Ringwald) and her principal in Pretty in Pink:

"Andie, if you send out signals you don't want to belong, people are going to make sure you don't."

"That's a nice theory."

That pretty much sums up my view what you say above. I don't believe blaming the victim of bullying is the correct tactic. If you treat others the way you want to be treated, then you should be treated the way you want to be treated. This is regardless of your social choices or nonverbal cues. It's unfortunate the bullies do not understand that just because an opening is available doesn't mean they should take it, which is what it seems like you are suggesting. No person should have to fear their own body language is putting them in danger.

No, you're right, and I agree. A person shouldn't have to blame themselves for becoming a victim or having the wrong type of body language. Unfortunately, they'll be targeted somewhat based on their body language, regardless.

I don't blame the victim for becoming a victim; however, I am inclined to criticize the victim according to their actions while being a victim. I'm assuming you believe in standing up for yourself? That's basically the virtue I've been implying--obviously, with little-to-no success. lol

[Tsuwabuki]

I punch people in the nose and cause them significant damage when they touch me negatively or approach me in a clearly threatening manner. Not something I would do without just cause, and only as a last resort, but clearly...

Yes, I believe in standing up for oneself.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

I punch people in the nose and cause them significant damage when they touch me negatively or approach me in a clearly threatening manner. Not something I would do without just cause, and only as a last resort, but clearly...

Yes, I believe in standing up for oneself.

to all:
I would caution on taking this approach, and I consider it bad advice: If someone is approaching you in a threatening manner and you take and land the first swing, you can really open yourself up to many problems:
a. lawsuit (which may what the threatening individual wants)
b. medical bills if you are found guilty of assault, including some very expensive dental.
c. you may be unaware of any medical issues the other person may have. Landing a swing in certain parts of the face or head can result in some serious complications that you would be responsible for despite what hear-say is available. Sure the bully initiated it, but you will be left holding the bag if real problems arise, despite on who initiated it.

I understand the issue that bully is the one being threatening, but there are rare situations where one should take the first swing. Most bullies will back down if one shows they are ready to defend themselves; that is if they are not surrounded by on-lookers.

I would say if one has a continuing bully problem, is to start taking self defense martial arts. The "significant damage" by approaching "in a clearly threatening manner" is a dangerous game. Easier said than done I know if you end up in a fight, especially when the bully may have backup, but if you can defend yourself enough to get away, it has served its purpose, and possibly make you a less likely target in the future.

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

"If you do fight back, make sure you learn how to end the fight with one blow, then walk away. I usually broke noses with my first punch. It entailed that the individuals would never, ever want to get near me again."

In addition for those who have broken more then one nose,
I would say there are more underlying issues that invites these situations.

[manganimefan227]

My Health teacher in Seventh grade once saidto let people beat you up, so you are just the completely innocwnt victim of an attack and let the just and money come in.

[Tsuwabuki]

Originally Posted by clintjm

to all:
I would caution on taking this approach, and I consider it bad advice: If someone is approaching you in a threatening manner and you take and land the first swing, you can really open yourself up to many problems...
I would say if one has a continuing bully problem, is to start taking self defense martial arts. The "significant damage" by approaching "in a clearly threatening manner" is a dangerous game. Easier said than done I know if you end up in a fight, especially when the bully may have backup, but if you can defend yourself enough to get away, it has served its purpose, and possibly make you a less likely target in the future.

I said as a last resort and only with just cause. You have said nothing here I did not advocate before, I am saying simply that in some circumstances, where you are aware of a history of an individual, you may be forced to do significant damage because if you don't, you will be in imminent and significant danger yourself.

In addition for those who have broken more then one nose,
I would say there are more underlying issues that invites these situations.

We're talking three or four noses over the course of some twenty five odd years here, clint. I have never started an altercation, and I do not have a history of violent outbursts. I did, however, defend myself when I needed to. I felt that I was in a situation where I would not just be hurt, but be hurt badly. Therefore, I do not believe that removing the ability of the individual to harm me or others in the future was an unreasonable move, even if it caused unintended consequences.

Don't put words in my mouth or psychoses in my head.

Originally Posted by manganimefan227

My Health teacher in Seventh grade once saidto let people beat you up, so you are just the completely innocwnt victim of an attack and let the just and money come in.

Terrible advice, I think. It sets up a pattern that invites more attacks (bullies look for those that don't fight back).

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

I said as a last resort and only with just cause. You have said nothing here I did not advocate before, I am saying simply that in some circumstances, where you are aware of a history of an individual, you may be forced to do significant damage because if you don't, you will be in imminent and significant danger yourself.



We're talking three or four noses over the course of some twenty five odd years here, clint. I have never started an altercation, and I do not have a history of violent outbursts. I did, however, defend myself when I needed to. I felt that I was in a situation where I would not just be hurt, but be hurt badly. Therefore, I do not believe that removing the ability of the individual to harm me or others in the future was an unreasonable move, even if it caused unintended consequences.

Don't put words in my mouth or psychoses in my head.



Terrible advice, I think. It sets up a pattern that invites more attacks (bullies look for those that don't fight back).

Over 25 odd years? you were breaking noses back in kindergarden?
3 or 4? Can't remember? Seriously, if I did a full break of a nose or was in an altercation like that, I'd remember it and how many.

Anyway I was just replying to the fact of the first punch situation and the dangers that lie within your approach.

Taking the "first swing" in order to "break a nose" in a "touch me negatively or approach me in a clearly threatening manner" even in a last resort before they may attack isn't wise in any situation unless its *life threatening* - i.e. someone got a serious weapon; in which case even then you don't bring a fist to weapons fight.

I think the advice you give in this case is dangerous, ill-advised, and will not lead to a good end. One with a broken nose make seek a uglier revenge in these crazy days. Also for the reasons in my first post.

I would just hope this isn't something you teach your students if they came to you with such a problem as you advise here. In general that is what you are doing in this forum.

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

Yes, sometimes, violence does solve the problem. Restrained, specific violence. It's when you lose control and use violence unrestrictedly that you become the bad guy, rather than the victim defending yourself.

Violence solves nothing in the end. Especially in these bully situations.

[Kageboushi]

No, because I hardly watch anime or act like a geek. My interest in Japan doesn't dominate my personality.

[Tsuwabuki]

Originally Posted by clintjm

Over 25 odd years? you were breaking noses back in kindergarden? 3 or 4? Can't remember? Seriously, if I did a full break of a nose or was in an altercation like that, I'd remember it and how many.

Four times that I remember trying to. I am not entirely sure I succeeded in all times. The first did occur while I was at my first elementary school, so that was fourth grade or lower. I think it was in third. But yeah, that was a fair amount of time ago.

Also, I doubt very much you would remember details about fights that occurred decades before. Human memory, especially childhood memory, isn't that good. You're being provocative just to be provocative.

Anyway I was just replying to the fact of the first punch situation and the dangers that lie within your approach.

Taking the "first swing" in order to "break a nose" in a "touch me negatively or approach me in a clearly threatening manner" even in a last resort before they may attack isn't wise in any situation unless its *life threatening* - i.e. someone got a serious weapon; in which case even then you don't bring a fist to weapons fight.

*sigh* One does not need a weapon to be a major threat. Let's take one of those examples, the one that occurred in eighth grade. This individual had picked me up and dropped me on a tiled corridor floor on my chin. I was lucky, and so was he. It merely gave me a scar and chipped a bit of bone. He could have broken my neck. He could have killed me. Whether he was trying to or not, and surely, he wasn't, it doesn't matter. The next time he went for me, I broke his nose. He never attacked me again.

I would argue, as I'm sure would my lawyer, that this individual had a history of cornering me, cutting off escape routes, and engaging in assault and battery that could have lead to permanent damage or death. I was well within my rights to use force in response.

I think the advice you give in this case is dangerous, ill-advised, and will not lead to a good end. One with a broken nose make seek a uglier revenge in these crazy days. Also for the reasons in my first post.

Actually, I'm inclined to believe that you are being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. Regardless, days were already crazy in the mid and late nineties. Remember Columbine? Didn't that happen in 1997 or 1998? I grant you bring up some excellent concerns, concerns I feel must fall by the wayside when you fear for your life.

I would just hope this isn't something you teach your students if they came to you with such a problem as you advise here. In general that is what you are doing in this forum.

I am not allowed to, and I probably wouldn't consider it my place. The situation has not come up. I have not been privy to much bullying in my classes, and when I see it, I step in.

Remember, my own authority figures never punished me, or not much, for acting when I did. I believe that speaks volumes for my decisions on when to fight back.

I cannot even say it is something I would teach my own kids, since I do not have any.

This, however, is a forum. Somewhere I should feel free to give my opinion. I believe you must draw a line in the sand at some point. You are free to have your own opinions, but do not disparage me for mine. You've made a few good arguments, there is no need to sprinkle personal attacks in with those points. It merely weakens your credibility.

Violence solves nothing in the end. Especially in these bully situations.

I disagree. And already said so. You and I disagree. Let's move on without character assassinations.

[MeIsKevin]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

Kevin, our name is written most accurately as ケヴェン. It's not perfect, but's what I have on all my bank/credit cards, my insurance card, hospital card. ケヴイン comes out to sound like Ke-vu-ee-n.

Thank's mate!