Going to japan was the biggest mistake of my life.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by kurezi

You were unlucky. What happened to you in Japan could happen to you in ANY city around the world. Most Japanese people aren't racist. They're just not used to foreigners like Americans are. America is a melting pot. We're used to diversity and they aren't. They were probably staring at you because you're white but maybe you were imagining the staring rudely part because in our culture staring itself is rude? About Japanese police- I have heard on multiple occasions Japanese people criticizing their own police. Apparently they're a big problem in Japan. But you have to do your research before you go to another country. Every country in the world has its bad side and you should be prepared so you can avoid it and enjoy yourself. THAT was your mistake. Not going to Japan, but going to Japan unprepared.

People stare at foreigners in small towns in America, just as they stare at foreigners in small towns in Japan.

People don't stare at foreigners in Tokyo, just because there are 10s of thousands of them walking around. It's 2009. There is nothing special about a foreigner in Tokyo (Osaka,Yokohama, Kobe, etc...)

[Nyororin]

Personally, the mugging bit is what I find LEAST unlikely about his post. Crime happens everywhere, and there is a chance that he was unlucky enough for it to happen to him. My husband was mugged once, so I`m not going to be one to say "Oh that can`t be true!"

It`s the OTHER stuff that makes his post look like it`s made up - which ends up making me question the mugging. Not to mention that he wasn`t even in Detroit, and apparently won`t be coming back to show that he is even really from there.

There are a number of things that make the post suspicious. Add them up and the whole thing smells of trolling.

Either way, I`ve lived here 10 YEARS and have yet to encounter a SINGLE no foreigners sign anywhere in the country. Even in Tokyo. Even in red light districts. I`ve also never had people give me nasty looks and tell me to get out of any store, anywhere.

Defending somewhere from accusations that seem totally out of line is not "Japanophiles making excuses for Japan". It`s conveying fact.

I`ve seen you defend China many times noodle - I`m sure you understand that clearing up misconceptions isn`t the same as saying somewhere is a wonderland.

[Tangram]

Oh my.

First off, you obviously joined this forum specifically to tell us this, with no other motive, such as becoming a part of the community. You probably planned on looking for any thread where you could possibly recount your tale. This is initially rude. It's kind of like trying to become someone's friend just so that you can use them in some statistics report. It's also known as a form of trolling.

Now, about your experience (if it's true). I can believe in someone getting mugged in broad daylight in Tokyo. If a child can get kidnapped right outside of a police station in my US town, a mugging in Tokyo is possible. I do, however, doubt that it was because you were white. Like MMM said, few Japanese criminals go out of their way to target whites. If anything, they may have targeted the tourist that looked like he might carry almost all of his spending money on him at once.

The no foreigner signs I have a very hard time of believing. I've never been to Japan, but everything I've heard leads me to believe that in Tokyo you only find very many no-foreigner signs in the red-light district, and for a good reason, honestly. Are you sure you didn't maybe catch sight of an old-fashioned guest-house with a no-foreigner sign or something, and then exaggerate it to being that the signs are everywhere? Tokyo's economy would waver a bit if no-foreigner signs were as common as you claim. Westerners are easily offended by that sort of thing, and it would likely be mentioned in travel journals rather often.

Maybe you're just not the type that ought to travel, eh? Perhaps you have a nice comfort zone in your own culture, and leaving it makes you antsy. That's fine, lots of people are like that. I have a feeling you'd have a similar experience with just about any big tourist-destination.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by MMM

What isn't true is the dirty looks and tons of no foreigner signs on shops. This is TOKYO...one of the most international cities in the world. It's simply not true. It's not about "defending Japan" or being a "Japanophile"...it's about telling the truth. And biggest mistake isn't telling the truth.

One of the most international cities in the world? I doubt Tokyo can really be called that. From what I can remember, Tokyo population has roughly 2.5% foreigners. Out of those 2.5%, 2/3 are East Asian. So that leaves lets say 1% of foreigners that don't look anything like Japanese.

Therefore, I doubt the Japanese are at all used to seeing foreigners which makes me believe that a tourist that isn't in a typical tourist spot WILL get stares (whether you take it as dirty looks or not depends on your personality. Someone with admiration towards the Japanese will surely not take it as dirty looks, but someone neutral will likely find it uncomfortable and slightly uneasy, especially at first, hence the feeling of dirty looks).
I don't blame people for feeling they are dirty looks. I too felt that in China, I had non stop dirty looks until after the first week when I got used to being where I was and felt a sense of security. Being abroad in a place you don't speak the language is already intimidating, so having people look at you doesn't help until you get used to things.

EDIT: You're probably going to reply something along the lines of, "even if you believe they are dirty looks, they really arn't. They do not mean bad by it"... which is true, but doesn't change the fact that they are dirty looks for some people. Many, believe staring is rude! Just because it is done in Japan without malintent, doesn't mean it's not rude!

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I`ve seen you defend China many times noodle - I`m sure you understand that clearing up misconceptions isn`t the same as saying somewhere is a wonderland.

Me defending China and this situation are not the same. This person says he just came back from Japan. Me defending China is usually against people that have never stepped foot on China and usually have strong feelings based on what they have seen on TV. So, if someone comes to me and says "when I was in China.... so and so happened...", I will not defend it, the way Japan is being defended right now. Anyway, my main point is that even my Japanese friends here are not so defensive. They don't even deny the fact that there are "Japanese Only" signs scaterred here and there. I'm sure TONS is an exaguration, but it seems pretty obvious that they exist!


EDIT: Anyway, I shouldn't really debate this because I have never been to Japan, but I don't think people should just jump on someone because he's given a negative view of Japan. People need to hear about the Negatives of everywhere, Japan included. I'm sure people will not take it as Japan being a sh*tho*e! The most likely thing it will do is open peoples' eyes and make them realise Japan isn't perfect, which I've seen you guys say before. But saying Japan isn't perfect isn't really that helpful unless you give examples (even extremely rare ones).

[MMM]

This is why the OP is being successful in his facade.

NO ONE gets stares at in Tokyo. You could have two heads, and people will walk past you without a second look. It is similar in that way to New York, London, Hong Kong, etc. It more than the population density of foreigners, but life in a massively huge city.

You can say Tokyo isn't international if you want, but that seems pretty naive to me. How many media outlets, major corporations, fashion designers, etc. have offices in Tokyo? Hell, my podunk home state of Oregon has tourist and business offices in Tokyo. So only 300,000 foreigners, 100,000 of which are Westerners live in Tokyo...that's a pretty significant amount, if your numbers are correct.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by noodle

Me defending China and this situation are not the same. This person says he just came back from Japan. Me defending China is usually against people that have never stepped foot on China and usually have strong feelings based on what they have seen on TV. So, if someone comes to me and says "when I was in China.... so and so happened...", I will not defend it, the way Japan is being defended right now.

Let us say that someone comes along and says "I just got back from China! Everyone threw rocks at me, beat me every time I tried to go into a shop!!! And all the kids were slaves. There were human rights violations everywhere I looked! And everyone was eating dogs! It`s so awful!" ... etc etc - giving examples of an experience seriously removed from what you knew of the country (but not from negative media about China). Don`t you think that maybe, just maybe, you might doubt some of what they were saying? That maybe you might find it hard to believe that they had really visited the country?

I don`t want to fight with you over this, but I don`t think it`s fair of you to snap at those of us who actually have long life experience in Japan saying "Wait a second, that doesn`t sound realistic at all."

ETA; Also, the number of foreigners living in a city is a moot point. More important is the number of foreign tourists on a given day - and there are a TON in Tokyo.

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by biggestmistake

As an anime fan it had always been my dream to go to japan. But when i went it was a total nightmare.

See...my uncle works for a travel agency so i was able to go to japan for a pretty low price. Despite the low price this is easily the biggest waste of money i have ever spent. I was shocked to see how racist japan is! They HATE whites. Everyone there gave me dirty looks, they were rude as all hell to me, and once when i went into a store one of the guys who worked here yelled "no foreigner!!!! no foreigner!!!!" After that i noticed that TONS of businesses had signs saying "No foreigners" "No westerners" and for some reason "no filipinos" Worst of all i was mugged in broad daylight and when i went to report this to the police they didnt seem to care and made me feel like i was wasting their time. This all happened my first 3 days there... after all this crap happened to me i scrapped the rest of my plans and spent the rest of my time there alone in my hotel room.

I have never felt so unwelcome and unsafe anywhere in my life.....and im from the worst part of detroit, and im glad to be back.

Just wanted to share my experience with everyone.

I can imagine the employees shouting "No foreigner!"... That's pretty funny.

I have to be honest, I think you were just unlucky.
In addition to my own experience there, I have met and talked to virtually hundreds of other "foreigners" who have visited and had a great time. This isn't to say that I haven't heard or noticed bad things about Japan; However, in this case, the positives out-weigh the negatives.

If you still like Japan, I think you should definitely give it another try -- perhaps in another city/province. Afterall, no experience is ever exactly same, and if there are bad experiences to be had there, there are also good.

Originally Posted by noodle

One of the most international cities in the world? I doubt Tokyo can really be called that. From what I can remember, Tokyo population has roughly 2.5% foreigners. Out of those 2.5%, 2/3 are East Asian. So that leaves lets say 1% of foreigners that don't look anything like Japanese.

Do these estimations include people who live there as well as people who visit?

[noodle]

MMM, if I ever go to Tokyo, I'll let you know if I think people stare or not. Nothing else I can say apart from that not EVERYONE thinks there is no staring.

Nyororin, this situation isn't nearly as exagurated as your example (speaking from what others have said). But like what I just said to MMM, the only way I can be sure is to actually visit myself.

As for the population thing, I was taking into consideration the tourists, hence the 1% rather than 0.83'% (There're 35k foreign tourists per day in Tokyo, so if you count 35k as living there, the 1% is justifiable). So, it's not a mute point!

I apologise if you think I snaped at you guys! My point was to actually say you guys shouldn't snap. I guess I was slightly hypocritical! Apologies!

[kcyk8703]

1) I have yet to see a "no foreigner" sign here in tokyo, red light districts included. (Could be because im not looking for them?)

2) No one is going to give you funny looks unless you're staring them down expecting one; or do something to deserve it.

3) Ive strolled outside late at night many times and have yet to encounter anything more dangerous than a drunk person wanting to conversate.

4) I'm not quite sure how a mugging could take place in such a crowded metropolitan, its quite rare to ever be alone on the Tokyo streets.

As far as racism, I dont think I have encountered any so far. Maybe a bit of discouragement when I ask if they know english for an explanation or important topic I would feel more using my native tounge.

Everyone has their own image of Japan if they have never visited before. I myself had a few expectations upon my arrival, but its just logic; Japanese people are no different than any other populous in the world, they're just living their lives. The country isnt there to make your dreams come true. That goes to all the fanatic school kids on this forum with the "I want to live in Japan" mentality. Japan is Not an anime, dont expect it to be.

[Jaydelart]

I think part of the issue has to do with emphasis of the unusual or negative.
As an American, you probably aren't used to seeing a "No Foreigners" sign, so finding one (or a few) will have a pretty significant impact on your experience in the country -- and, by extension, your view of the country... Especially, if you are led there by unrealistic expectations and are from an immensely different culture. This argument, however, does not excuse the existence of such signs.

This is just my theory.