Q:your views of china's current and future problem.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by komitsuki

Two more thing: China finally has Hong Kong, a very start of the China-boom spark.

Asian values - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently it looks like the Asian values, having been supported by many Asian politicians including the Muslim Malaysian government, is making a comeback recently. And there's the conservative Hindutva movement in India that is strong recently.

Come to think of it, the world is getting more and more fractured than we ever imagined.

I think history tells a different story.

Also... I don't think the link you provide necessarily supports that.

From your link.

An important aspect of the concept of the above mentioned Asian values systems is that many agree that there should be room for democratic and scientific decision-making and thought being a driving force for any universally accepted values system, especially given that resort to such thought is highly verifiable by all concerned independent of subjective values-systems held.

Also I'm opposed to the idea of values having ethnic characteristics. Understanding the ethnic perspective/bias a person might have is important of course.... but to justify something simply because it's "Asian" or "Western" as opposed to doing so on the basis of logic or reason is really not a justification at all.

Originally Posted by komitsuki

Mankind? Internationalism? This is a very Marxist-Leninist concept to me.

Ever heard of Liberal Internationalism?

[komitsuki]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I think history tells a different story.

Also... I don't think the link you provide necessarily supports that.

From your link.



Also I'm opposed to the idea of values having ethnic characteristics. Understanding the ethnic perspective/bias a person might have is important of course.... but to justify something simply because it's "Asian" or "Western" as opposed to doing so on the basis of logic or reason is really not a justification at all.

Clearly, you don't think like someone with a non-western thoughts. After all, international liberalism is a very western-based political concept.

Ever heard of Liberal Internationalism?

A political thought that liberal countries have the absolute rights to influence non-liberal countries?

First of all, I don't buy into ideas similar to political liberal vs. conservative... right wing vs. left wing.

I believe being liberal is a common human concept, not a political one.

I just can't agree with you because we have very much of a different values (that doesn't mean you're essentially wrong) from you... ironically despite I live in the west for most of my life. :/

After all we discussed between you and me, haven't you noticed that we have a totally different value that we can't even discuss a single topic functionally?

You are a smart man with a very straight-forward attitude. Sorry but perhaps you are being a bit loosy.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by komitsuki

Clearly, you don't think like someone with a non-western thoughts. After all, international liberalism is a very western-based political concept.

Maybe... but I hope you're not dismissing it because of that. I like to think that while cultural bias is natural... that there is a common ground we can find to have such discussion.

Originally Posted by komitsuki

A political thought that liberal countries have the absolute rights to influence non-liberal countries?

First of all, I don't buy into ideas similar to political liberal vs. conservative... right wing vs. left wing.

I believe being liberal is a common human concept, not a political one.

Well not quite. It's the idea that liberalism on an international level will ensure peace via interdependency and result in a collective/common security. It's based on the ideology of Liberalism.

I don't think politics, values etc are absolute so in one sense I agree with you. I do think that these concepts are useful in discussing patterns, trends etc.

Originally Posted by komitsuki

I just can't agree with you because we have very much of a different values (that doesn't mean you're essentially wrong) from you... ironically despite I live in the west for most of my life. :/

After all we discussed between you and me, haven't you noticed that we have a totally different value that we can't even discuss a single topic functionally?

You are a smart man with a very straight-forward attitude. Sorry but perhaps you are being a bit loosy.

I can agree to disagree I suppose.

[Ronin4hire]

Documentary on Tibet

tibet documentary - Google Video

[kirakira]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Documentary on Tibet

tibet documentary - Google Video

By BBC, no bias there obviously.

Ronin, it would help if you actually go to Tibet instead of watching western propaganda that is talking about China in the 80s.

Of course China have its own brew of propaganda but to totally regard western media as unbiased is totally ridiculous.

[noodle]

That documentary didn't show anything... It was a bunch of Tibetans abroad complaining about a place they probably haven't visited in their lifetime. Oh and btw, you know the police/army that arrested the first group, CNN and BBC tried reporting that as Chinese officers!

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by noodle

That documentary didn't show anything... It was a bunch of Tibetans abroad complaining about a place they probably haven't visited in their lifetime. Oh and btw, you know the police/army that arrested the first group, CNN and BBC tried reporting that as Chinese officers!

Obviously you didn't watch it.

I trust BBC as a reliable source.

I'm not interested in calls of propaganda. If you have any of you have any counter claims to make about the documentary then make them specifically. Otherwise you're pretty heartless if you're dismissing it straight off the bat.

There are some pretty heart wrenching stories and individual accounts in there.

[komitsuki]

From the OP, China is doing very fine as long as Canada is being a BFF with China.

Thank goodness that Canada has a fast-growing number of Chinese immigrants enough to make this happen.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Obviously you didn't watch it.

I trust BBC as a reliable source.

I'm not interested in calls of propaganda. If you have any of you have any counter claims to make about the documentary then make them specifically. Otherwise you're pretty heartless if you're dismissing it straight off the bat.

There are some pretty heart wrenching stories and individual accounts in there.

What do you want me to dismiss exactly? I gurantee you that most of those people probably never stepped foot in Tibet before. It's a bunch of Free Tibet supporters. I can show you hundreds of "documentaries" just like that one from almost every nation in the world concerning as many issues as there are colours.

I'm not the type of person to get teary because of heart wrenching stories. I already know the world is screwed. If I took all the individual stories to heart, I'd get too depressed in life. And to be honest with you, there are more pressing matters in the world. Tibet can wait another century for all I care. Back in my country, I have family members that are dying because they don't have clean running water, that don't have a home to live in because it broke down in an earthquake 5 years ago and the government aint doing shit about it. Or maybe go down south a bit where millions of people have aids and are dying every second.

Psssh, heartwrenching stories. Heck, holywood has a bunch of those as well It's pretty silly to even think someone can be heartless because he aint too fussed about a silly 10 min documentary!

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by noodle

What do you want me to dismiss exactly? I gurantee you that most of those people probably never stepped foot in Tibet before. It's a bunch of Free Tibet supporters. I can show you hundreds of "documentaries" just like that one from almost every nation in the world concerning as many issues as there are colours.

I'm not the type of person to get teary because of heart wrenching stories. I already know the world is screwed. If I took all the individual stories to heart, I'd get too depressed in life. And to be honest with you, there are more pressing matters in the world. Tibet can wait another century for all I care. Back in my country, I have family members that are dying because they don't have clean running water, that don't have a home to live in because it broke down in an earthquake 5 years ago and the government aint doing shit about it. Or maybe go down south a bit where millions of people have aids and are dying every second.

Psssh, heartwrenching stories. Heck, holywood has a bunch of those as well It's pretty silly to even think someone can be heartless because he aint too fussed about a silly 10 min documentary!

Um.. The documentary is not 10 minutes... It's 2 hours. (Unless I posted the link wrong... I'll check.) And I don't expect you to be teary eyed over the accounts... but I do expect some sort of empathy towards them even if it's merely a recognition that this is wrong.

Sure there are other sad stories that happen around the world... but does that make what the Chinese doing OK?

Most of the people interviewed are people who live in Tibet, Dharamsala (the place in India where the Tibetan government has set itself up in exile). The Western analysts they talk have also been to Tibet, so there goes your "Most of these people have never been into Tibet" idea.

The documentary does give the Chinese pespective some light and paints America in a very bad light too for abandoning the CIA funding of Tibetan resistance fighters so that it could use China to contain the Soviet Union so I wouldn't call it propaganda on the part of the West.