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05-06-2009, 07:48 PM
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In essence you want people to think your way to justify themselves when it comes to them proposing ideas and laws. NO go. Religion is not just some behind the closet deal, those who hold such ideas have the same "rational" as you do when it comes them supporting/non ideas and laws. A lot of the government ideas and practices can arguably find themselves based in religion. To say the government needs to justify themselves based on YOUR belief is the same coin. They only thing that matters when it comes to law is the base of the Government of which it is founded i.e. as long as the law doesn't go against those, there's no argument as long as the majority of people agree to it. did you not see the point in that line? In the context I was connecting to how laws cannot be fair to everyone, to do so would be anarchy. In what point does " most western societies are based on rationale..." have with this? I'll say again what I'm arguing, each person has the right based on belief of what they will support/non, by that if so the majority agrees that value can be interpreted into law in support of the documents of the government. That is saying government is the extension of the common people right to support that which they fine legal and just. That is not to say all laws are right, and everything that is right is law. Wither the people say based on whatever philosophy that they agree to, it is there right to judge that, and vote/non against what they believe in. even discussing this matter in the tone that we are, IS walking an fine line. 31 Whether therefore ye eat or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God. 33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved. 
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05-06-2009, 10:13 PM
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As for my beliefs... I suppose my belief in the moral standing of liberal ideals is a belief in a sense (though I don't consider it the same as religion)... but do you really have a problem with that? I sort of assumed that you being from America held the same beliefs that I did in that sense since we are both from Western countries. But more specifically I suppose there are many things that I'm against and wouldn't do that I believe are morally wrong that I don't believe should be outlawed. I believe smoking is a disgusting habit and that prostitutes and their customers are empty, soulless people. I don't believe they should be outlawed though. I expect the same of Christians and in fact... most Christians (here at least) respect this. They are FREE for example, to believe that the sanctity of life is so great that only God could take it away or that an embryo deserves human rights and act according to their beliefs. (By choosing not become euthanised or by choosing not to. And will you PLEASE shut up about walking a fine line? If we do cross the line I'm sure we'll be politely told as such by a mod or someone. Or are you simply scared of this sort of discussion?
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05-07-2009, 01:43 PM
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You don't understand, how can you say to someone to put away there beliefs/convictions (abortion for example is NOT supported by the majority of Christians) so they can make law according to your standards. That doesn't work, mainly because people won't put away there convictions. Even if you don't belief that something shouldn't be illegal, with respect to the lands law, someone else will have an different opinion. The very fact that we both have different philosophies, convictions, and ideas is an prime example of how very different we both view law, and government. What I believe to be law, and the same with you is drastically different and thus the same with groups of people. I can set their and say certain stuff should be law, and you can say the opposite, and I can go out and support my cause, (same with you) and if the circumstances allow that could lead elsewhere. How can you set there and tell me my ideas don't work? Seams an step over an line. Did I not mention in my earlier posts about government protection of minority with respect to whats being proposed? Yet, again on what basis do you have to say in my religious views that I'm an tyrant, and WHAT basis do you have to say I'm an extremist? Is it because I hold my convictions to an higher standard, or is it because my views don't meet yours (be careful just calling me that does amount to breaking the rules)? The fact that you used Iran, where there are plenty of more theocracy to use that doesn't have the very major problems that Iran has. The fact that you mention "connect the dots". How is it being an child when you can read into something and see that the comment is negative and thus make an deduction about what the writer is trying to make? 31 Whether therefore ye eat or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God. 33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
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05-07-2009, 06:14 PM
I agree with solemnclockwork about people having different opinions, but I don't get how religion got in this thread -_-! Religion isn't something to be used in arguments, nor it is an opinion, that is why the JF rule says so.
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05-07-2009, 06:42 PM
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31 Whether therefore ye eat or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God. 33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
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05-07-2009, 06:53 PM
For a conversation not about religion, there sure is a lot of talk about religion.
The points have been made. Let's move forward.
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05-07-2009, 07:47 PM
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 clearly.Plus it takes this thread off topic as you can see, its starting already . . . *dun dun dun* "MY GOD CAN BEAT YOUR GOD/BELIEFS SMACK OUT!". Plus I don't have a problem with any religion its the people I have a problem with, I just asked people not to say something they don't mean just because there reliogion says other wise. To get rid of peerpressure or infinite hell, what ever the punishment would be. Yet it seem YOU have a problem with it, your just like those bible people who come to my door. Even though I politely say "No hank you I'm not intrested" you still rape my ears and fry my mind with your BullS#$%. So if its okay that everyone has there own beliefs then why in all hell do you keep babbling about this Shiv?. I tried to avoid this sort of thing but noooooo people just kept pushing and pushing there beliefs for Fucks sake. This thread is closed Now back on topic. 
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05-07-2009, 10:41 PM
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The reason being that if you follow the logical conclusion to your ideas, you're talking about the oppression of other ways of thinking which are not "kosher" with Christianity simply because Christians happen to be a majority in your country.
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05-07-2009, 10:53 PM
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I'm arguing that it should be a personal matter and to each their own. solemnclock believes that there is nothing wrong with the religious majority imposing their beliefs via law.
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