Moral and logical decisions.

[Salvanas]

Originally Posted by ozkai

Welcome all to the new "Poetry Thread"

You go first!

I'd prefer if you stayed on on topic.

---

Now, just ot answer a few questions.

What exactly is morality? And what is behaving logically? In nearly all cases, the moral choice is also the logical choice.

I find that there is a difference. To use morality in making a decision you use your views, and you use your emotions to make the decision for you. Thus, many a time, clouding your vision.

Let me give you an example. Let's use the car+granny example.

A good moral choice would be to save the granny's life, and then to find out a way to save the child.
A bad moral choice would be to let both die.

A logical choice would be to let the granny die, (Or the boy if you take Nyororins example).
An illogical choice would be trying to save both, because fate (when presented with it) is something we cannot change.

Something I noticed though, while writing that, is that illogical links to the good morality.

I still don't understand the situation in the OP, but regardless of the answer someone will die. Therefore morality kind of goes out the window as regardless of the actor's action he will be saving a life and allowing a death.

So then the argument because an evaluation of the value of the child's life over the old woman's life.

Aye, it wasn't the best example, but I must admit, it's difficult to think up of such things on the spot. If anyone else has an example, I'm more than willing to use that.

I think morality is a part of logicality. Or I can say Logicality must based on the morality.

What does it mean when a logic is not based on moral? On what the logic is based other than moral?

Morality I believe does not use logic. You cannot have a moral choice which uses logic. I have yet to go deeper into that than the situations I've thought of, but at the moment I stand by that belief.

The only way they intervene with each other, is when a good moral decision is an illogical decision, which is most of the time.

[JayT]

Well It depends.

The obvious choice would be the child since it hopefully has a longer lifespan ahead of it, given if unfortunate happens to it.

But really, I think I'd decided if I knew who the kid was personally.
If he was a good student, an honest person than of course I'd pick him over the old woman. But if he was some heroin injecting junkie then I'd definitely chose the grandmother. What's the point of having a long life span if you're just going to plague the world. If you do nothing good you shouldn't really be alive at all.

That's my two cents.

I'm not even sure If I'm on topic of not,
I'm tired, it's really late where I am.
:X

[SaintKat]

Just taking this on face value, yes. I would definitely save the child over the grandmother. Even if it was my own grandmother. Neither me nor nan would have it any other way.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Salvanas

After having a discussion with a group of friends, the topic of moral and logical decisions came up.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, let me explain it.

There are two sets of decisions. There is the moral set; Good and Evil, and then there is the 'logical' set; Logical and Illogical. After arguing long and hard about it, the groups were evenly split, we got no where with it, but we found out a lot about each other.

Personally, I believe that moral decisions, although good in a a few situations, is the illogical way to go about it. Logic leads me to believe that decisions should be made logically, without any moral or emotion causing me to lead to a decision, and only hard logic.

One thing I asked my group went like this, and it's a perfect example.

---------------------
Me: Let's say an old granny is crossing the road, and suddenly a car swerves and is about to hit her. You have the chance to save this old woman, but you know, that if you do a child will die because of that choice. What do you do?

Friend that always backed the Morals over logic: I let the Granny get hit.

Me: That is a logical decision. Now let's say the old woman is YOUR grandmother?
----------------------

That's when everyone stopped and had to think about it. I believe that if I was in that situation, I'd let her get hit. It's the logical thing to do. Someone who had hardly any life, in exchange for someone who has his life ahead of him. EVEN if the granny is my gran.

What are your views on this?

Your example doesn't contrast logic with morality.

[MoritaShinobu]

Ronin4hire wrote:

Me: Let's say an old granny is crossing the road, and suddenly a car swerves and is about to hit her. You have the chance to save this old woman, but you know, that if you do a child will die because of that choice. What do you do?


Why can't it be: Yell to another person who's also walking on that same street (assuming that on a random street in most cases there are more than 1 people walking) to save the old granny, then your mind reads the situation telling it's going to be allright. Now you can save the kid yourself.

People these days often show some initiative on their own. ^^

[RadioKid]

Morality I believe does not use logic. You cannot have a moral choice which uses logic. I have yet to go deeper into that than the situations I've thought of, but at the moment I stand by that belief.

Logic is relative. Even if two person have same logic, the result of the logical judge may differ when the basises (or start points) of the logic for two people are different. Then I'm asking what is the basis of the logic. I think the morality is the very basis of the logic.

I wrote neither morality uses logic nor logic uses morality in previous post.

If the morality is totally different, there will be no meaningful discussion.

The case in the opening post does not make sense for me.

[forgotenmemory]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

This is U:

Awesome.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Salvanas

Morality I believe does not use logic. You cannot have a moral choice which uses logic. I have yet to go deeper into that than the situations I've thought of, but at the moment I stand by that belief.

The only way they intervene with each other, is when a good moral decision is an illogical decision, which is most of the time.

You missed my post about morality being the x-axis and logic being the y-axis.

People make moral, logical choices every day. For example: Your father is having a heart attack. Do you call 911?

Morally it is correct as you are trying to save a life.
Logically it is correct as he puts a roof over your head
Emotionally it is correct, as you love him.

I think you are tying emotion too closely to morality. Morality has to do with "right and wrong" and not so much with personal emotions.

[Salvanas]

Originally Posted by MMM

You missed my post about morality being the x-axis and logic being the y-axis.

People make moral, logical choices every day. For example: Your father is having a heart attack. Do you call 911?

Morally it is correct as you are trying to save a life.
Logically it is correct as he puts a roof over your head
Emotionally it is correct, as you love him.

I think you are tying emotion too closely to morality. Morality has to do with "right and wrong" and not so much with personal emotions.

Radiokid + MMM: Good points. I see what you mean now. Fair enough.

[xX2DXx]

Originally Posted by ozkai

Need or not need, up to each and their own.

If someone didn't want to save their child, that would be a huge concern.

If you have a child one day, you may understand my thoughts.

Doesn't Hyakushi already have a child?

I actually don't really know how to answer this question but I'll try with what I know.
I think there are no lines seperating Moral and logical thinking like MMM said (at least what I think he means is) that there is a balance between both concepts depending on the situations at hand.