Bullying

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by MMM

You are changing things a bit here. You said other people are responsible for my emotions. My emotions is a feeling of discrimination.

If I discriminate against someone, then I am responsible for my action.

If someone feels discriminated against by me, by your words, I am also responsible for that.

Naturally, if I bully or discriminate, then I am responsible for my actions, but I can't be held responsible for other people's conceptions, misconceptions or feelings. You said you value emotion over logic.

What I am saying is you are responsible for your own actions AND emotions. It's like "He was mean and made me cry." Well, he might have been mean, but only you can allow yourself to cry.

I do value emotion over logic. It's for that reason that I feel people need to be careful of what they say, for it can feel like someone is discriminated against. For example, earlier in this thread, I felt like someone had suggested that - because people wear baggy clothes - they're "thugs." I felt discriminated against and stereotyped in that instance. I feel like the person who said that is responsible.

If there was a misconception, then that person had plenty of time throughout this thread to explain that they weren't discriminating and why. If the Chinese chef explained to you why they weren't discriminating against you, then - to me - everything is just fine and dandy.

I completely disagree with the idea of "you made yourself cry." If someone says something mean and hurts another person's feelings, that person shouldn't be expected to "suck it up." Human beings are emotional creatures. A natural response to pain is to cry. If someone was mean, then they're directly responsible for making that person cry.

Eh, I feel like we definitely need to agree to disagree at this point. Again. We just have different personalities, and we'll keep going around in circles over this issue.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

I do value emotion over logic. It's for that reason that I feel people need to be careful of what they say, for it can feel like someone is discriminated against. For example, earlier in this thread, I felt like someone had suggested that - because people wear baggy clothes - they're "thugs." I felt discriminated against and stereotyped in that instance. I feel like the person who said that is responsible.

Let's just say he said that "people that wear baggy clothes are thugs". The fact that you felt discriminated against and stereotyped makes little sense to me because there is no possible way for anyone on this forum to know what kind of clothes you wear.

(It can't be because of your race, because people of all races wear baggy clothes.)

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

If there was a misconception, then that person had plenty of time throughout this thread to explain that they weren't discriminating and why. If the Chinese chef explained to you why they weren't discriminating against you, then - to me - everything is just fine and dandy.

I feel like your are flip-flopping because you said people are responsible for the feelings others have. So the chef tells me the table called in first. I don't believe him, and I still feel discriminated against. Is he still responsible? It would be my argument that the chef was never responsible for my miconceptions and feelings in the first place. He did no wrong, so he has nothing to feel responsible for.

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

I completely disagree with the idea of "you made yourself cry." If someone says something mean and hurts another person's feelings, that person shouldn't be expected to "suck it up." Human beings are emotional creatures. A natural response to pain is to cry. If someone was mean, then they're directly responsible for making that person cry.

Crying isn't a natural response to pain, it is a learned behavior. Take a baby that always gets a reaction and picked up when it cries and take a baby from a crowded orphanage that was never held when it cried. If you were to give them both the same painful experience when they were a little older (I am not saying we should really do it) like a smack on the buns, and one toddler will more than likely cry and one won't.

Now, of course I am still responsible for my actions, but there are levels. If I call you a dummy and you cry, I am a mean person. If I call you a dummy and you commit suicide, am I a murderer?

I understand the concept that "you made me do something", but I think it's a cop out. Again, it becomes more clear if you push it out.

Let's say I cheat on my girlfriend...certainly a terrible thing to do. Let's say she is so upset that she kills me. Now I certainly made her upset, but does she then have no responsibility for her actions because I made her so mad she killed me?

Let's say instead of cheating on her, I broke a dish, and she got so upset she killed me? Is that my responsibility?

At what point are people responsible for their own emotions?

People say "I am an emotional person" and that usually says to me "I let people get to me, and don't take responsibility for my illogical [read: emotional] reactions to what people do or say."

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

Eh, I feel like we definitely need to agree to disagree at this point. Again. We just have different personalities, and we'll keep going around in circles over this issue.

No point in going on forever, but it is an interesting topic.

[Tsuwabuki]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

I guess we'd have to agree to disagree on that one.

Vangaris:I don't think that it's contradicting. I think you're right. It should be stopped, but as far as I can tell, it has been and maybe always will be a part of human nature.

I don't see how. There are plenty of categories of inappropriate behavior, and not all fall under "bullying." Bullying requires a certain methodology in practice. If there were misperceptions where the girl felt she was being mistreated, and was attempting to even the score, this is not bullying as I understood when taking adolescent psychology or as I understand it as a secondary education instructor. Choosing to engage an equal over a perceived slight, even multiple times, is not bullying. Bullying requires the target be convienent and expected to respond a certain way: usually impotently. This makes the bully feel superior and the bully will likely either continue to go after a target as long as the target responds "appropriately" or go after many different targets until the strategy fails to illicit the desired response. It does not sound to me that the student in your example did this. Payback is too specific, too planned, and too directed towards one person regardless of response for it to fall under bullying. It is still inappropriate behavior and should be punished.

[MMM]

Only because we are talking about feelings and responsibility, I wonder if anyone things that the spoilers should be responsible for this man's suicide.

Andy Borowitz: Man Commits Suicide After Learning Harry Potter Spoiler

HUDSON, OHIO (The Borowitz Report) -- A rabid Harry Potter fan took his life yesterday after inadvertently learning a plot spoiler from the soon-to-be-released J.K. Rowling movie, "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince." 



Jude Ralston, 32, of Hudson, Ohio left a suicide note indicating that since overhearing the plot spoiler at a shopping mall earlier in the day, "I no longer have a reason to live." 



Family and friends who gathered for a candlelight memorial outside Mr. Ralston's house remembered a man who seemed to live only for Harry Potter - and wondered if they could have done anything to prevent his tragic fate. 



"When Jude got that vanity license plate that said 'Hogwarts,' that seemed harmless enough," said Polly Clovis, who attended Model U.N. with Mr. Ralston while the two were in high school. "But when he started wearing that wizard hat around town, we really should have seen that as a cry for help." 



[Quailboy]

Originally Posted by MMM

Only because we are talking about feelings and responsibility, I wonder if anyone things that the spoilers should be responsible for this man's suicide.

Andy Borowitz: Man Commits Suicide After Learning Harry Potter Spoiler

HUDSON, OHIO (The Borowitz Report) -- A rabid Harry Potter fan took his life yesterday after inadvertently learning a plot spoiler from the soon-to-be-released J.K. Rowling movie, "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince." 



Jude Ralston, 32, of Hudson, Ohio left a suicide note indicating that since overhearing the plot spoiler at a shopping mall earlier in the day, "I no longer have a reason to live." 



Family and friends who gathered for a candlelight memorial outside Mr. Ralston's house remembered a man who seemed to live only for Harry Potter - and wondered if they could have done anything to prevent his tragic fate. 



"When Jude got that vanity license plate that said 'Hogwarts,' that seemed harmless enough," said Polly Clovis, who attended Model U.N. with Mr. Ralston while the two were in high school. "But when he started wearing that wizard hat around town, we really should have seen that as a cry for help." 



No..not at all...

And about the story as a whole. WTF.

[JayT]

I really hope the spoiler he overheard was indeed correct...
If not, what a waste.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by JoshAussie

Extended ban, both accounts?? Lol

One extended, one permanent.

[QueenNanami]

I think Ive had my hand in both lol XD I was a bully and was bullied.

I was bullied alot in school for being the "chubby girl" and because that i used to bully others to make myself feel better. You know so i can look in the mirror in the morning and not want to think i had nothing to live for. After awhile i found i was not as fat as people said i was or even made me feel i was. Not only that but After many trips to the councilor's office for my bullying he figured out that I was only acting on my own insincerity. Even tho it's embarrassing to say he used to make me look in a mirror and tell myself i was beautiful just the way i was over and over. After awhile i did feel better and i actually started to believe i was beautiful lol For a very long time every time i saw myself in a mirror i would repeat those words. "I am beautiful just the way I am." lol Kinda silly I know. but after that I really didnt take bullying from other people. I would brush it off. Because i liked myself and that's all that ever mattered to me.

[Salvanas]

Originally Posted by MMM

Only because we are talking about feelings and responsibility, I wonder if anyone things that the spoilers should be responsible for this man's suicide.

Andy Borowitz: Man Commits Suicide After Learning Harry Potter Spoiler

HUDSON, OHIO (The Borowitz Report) -- A rabid Harry Potter fan took his life yesterday after inadvertently learning a plot spoiler from the soon-to-be-released J.K. Rowling movie, "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince." 



Jude Ralston, 32, of Hudson, Ohio left a suicide note indicating that since overhearing the plot spoiler at a shopping mall earlier in the day, "I no longer have a reason to live." 



Family and friends who gathered for a candlelight memorial outside Mr. Ralston's house remembered a man who seemed to live only for Harry Potter - and wondered if they could have done anything to prevent his tragic fate. 



"When Jude got that vanity license plate that said 'Hogwarts,' that seemed harmless enough," said Polly Clovis, who attended Model U.N. with Mr. Ralston while the two were in high school. "But when he started wearing that wizard hat around town, we really should have seen that as a cry for help." 



I don't think I've laughed like this before in my life.

[xYinniex]

Originally Posted by MMM

Only because we are talking about feelings and responsibility, I wonder if anyone things that the spoilers should be responsible for this man's suicide.

Andy Borowitz: Man Commits Suicide After Learning Harry Potter Spoiler

HUDSON, OHIO (The Borowitz Report) -- A rabid Harry Potter fan took his life yesterday after inadvertently learning a plot spoiler from the soon-to-be-released J.K. Rowling movie, "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince." 



Jude Ralston, 32, of Hudson, Ohio left a suicide note indicating that since overhearing the plot spoiler at a shopping mall earlier in the day, "I no longer have a reason to live." 



Family and friends who gathered for a candlelight memorial outside Mr. Ralston's house remembered a man who seemed to live only for Harry Potter - and wondered if they could have done anything to prevent his tragic fate. 



"When Jude got that vanity license plate that said 'Hogwarts,' that seemed harmless enough," said Polly Clovis, who attended Model U.N. with Mr. Ralston while the two were in high school. "But when he started wearing that wizard hat around town, we really should have seen that as a cry for help." 



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Im sorry RIP.