Bullying

[fluffy0000]

This is from 2005' from Andy Borowitz a comedian who writes humor blog and is not factual people.

Man Commits Suicide after Learning Harry Potter Spoiler
'I No Longer Have a Reason to Live,' Says Despondent Potter Fan

A rabid Harry Potter fan took his life yesterday after inadvertently learning a plot spoiler from the soon-to-be-released J.K. Rowling opus, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (Book 6)

Jude Ralston, 32, of Hudson, Ohio left a suicide note indicating that since overhearing the plot spoiler at a shopping mall earlier in the day, "I no longer have a reason to live."

pls google Andy Borowitz daily humor column known as 'The Borowitz Report'
in which satarizes various political and entertainment figures -above is July 7 2005 excerpt.

[MMM]

They must have reposted for the movie premiere...you gotta read the whole link...good stuff.

[xYinniex]

Originally Posted by fluffy0000

This is from 2005' from Andy Borowitz a comedian who writes humor blog and is not factual people.

Man Commits Suicide after Learning Harry Potter Spoiler
'I No Longer Have a Reason to Live,' Says Despondent Potter Fan

A rabid Harry Potter fan took his life yesterday after inadvertently learning a plot spoiler from the soon-to-be-released J.K. Rowling opus, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (Book 6)

Jude Ralston, 32, of Hudson, Ohio left a suicide note indicating that since overhearing the plot spoiler at a shopping mall earlier in the day, "I no longer have a reason to live."

pls google Andy Borowitz daily humor column known as 'The Borowitz Report'
in which satarizes various political and entertainment figures -above is July 7 2005 excerpt.

ROFL. it still did it's supposed job. Its a hilarious article.

[Quailboy]

"In my heart I believe that could have saved Jude's life, even if he didn't have one," she said"

LOL

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by MMM

Let's just say he said that "people that wear baggy clothes are thugs". The fact that you felt discriminated against and stereotyped makes little sense to me because there is no possible way for anyone on this forum to know what kind of clothes you wear.

(It can't be because of your race, because people of all races wear baggy clothes.)



I feel like your are flip-flopping because you said people are responsible for the feelings others have. So the chef tells me the table called in first. I don't believe him, and I still feel discriminated against. Is he still responsible? It would be my argument that the chef was never responsible for my miconceptions and feelings in the first place. He did no wrong, so he has nothing to feel responsible for.



Crying isn't a natural response to pain, it is a learned behavior. Take a baby that always gets a reaction and picked up when it cries and take a baby from a crowded orphanage that was never held when it cried. If you were to give them both the same painful experience when they were a little older (I am not saying we should really do it) like a smack on the buns, and one toddler will more than likely cry and one won't.

Now, of course I am still responsible for my actions, but there are levels. If I call you a dummy and you cry, I am a mean person. If I call you a dummy and you commit suicide, am I a murderer?

I understand the concept that "you made me do something", but I think it's a cop out. Again, it becomes more clear if you push it out.

Let's say I cheat on my girlfriend...certainly a terrible thing to do. Let's say she is so upset that she kills me. Now I certainly made her upset, but does she then have no responsibility for her actions because I made her so mad she killed me?

Let's say instead of cheating on her, I broke a dish, and she got so upset she killed me? Is that my responsibility?

At what point are people responsible for their own emotions?

People say "I am an emotional person" and that usually says to me "I let people get to me, and don't take responsibility for my illogical [read: emotional] reactions to what people do or say."


No point in going on forever, but it is an interesting topic.

This is a forum. It's difficult to know what kind of clothes or what kind of culture a person is in to. For that reason, people shouldn't stereotype any group of people - for the only reason that there are going to be different groups of people on this forum. I don't know if there are any Asian people on this thread, but if I say, "All Asian people speak like chin-chang-yo!" then hell yes, they have the right to feel discriminated against and stereotyped. It doesn't matter that I didn't know that they were thee.

I think maybe you're assuming that my points are black and white. I think that people are responsible for others emotions, and because of that, should also explain different situations or circumstances if it turns out that they've offended another person. If I were sitting at a table - regardless of race - I'd be upset to see another person served first, and I'd want to know why. I don't think it's difficult to explain that someone called in first.

If you show me a person that has never cried in all of their life, then I'll believe your argument that people learn to cry or not cry when in pain.

It's possible that you could be a murderer. People have gone to trial for bullying others to death.

My argument is that no one should attack others, and that people are responsible for others feelings. If your girlfriend killed you, I wouldn't think she was right because she also attacked you. She could simply communicate about the pain that you caused her, you could apologize to her, and she could choose to stay with you or to move on. Attacking another person, verbally or physically, doesn't need to be in that equation.

I'll say again that my argument isn't black and white. I agree with you that there is a point when people can't be responsible for others feelings. I think back to the example I gave before, where the girl had assumed that the boy beside her had been talking about her behind of his back. He wasn't, and because of her own insecurities, she attacked. That's an instance when I say that logic should be more important than emotion. However, if someone were to say to me that I'm black, so I should be a slave - that I'm a woman, so I'm inferior to men - then yes, I'd feel attacked, and that person would be responsible for the pain I feel.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

I don't see how. There are plenty of categories of inappropriate behavior, and not all fall under "bullying." Bullying requires a certain methodology in practice. If there were misperceptions where the girl felt she was being mistreated, and was attempting to even the score, this is not bullying as I understood when taking adolescent psychology or as I understand it as a secondary education instructor. Choosing to engage an equal over a perceived slight, even multiple times, is not bullying. Bullying requires the target be convienent and expected to respond a certain way: usually impotently. This makes the bully feel superior and the bully will likely either continue to go after a target as long as the target responds "appropriately" or go after many different targets until the strategy fails to illicit the desired response. It does not sound to me that the student in your example did this. Payback is too specific, too planned, and too directed towards one person regardless of response for it to fall under bullying. It is still inappropriate behavior and should be punished.

Okay, I understand what you're saying.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

This is a forum. It's difficult to know what kind of clothes or what kind of culture a person is in to. For that reason, people shouldn't stereotype any group of people - for the only reason that there are going to be different groups of people on this forum. I don't know if there are any Asian people on this thread, but if I say, "All Asian people speak like chin-chang-yo!" then hell yes, they have the right to feel discriminated against and stereotyped. It doesn't matter that I didn't know that they were thee.

You didn't address my point. You said YOU felt discriminated against and stereotyped by the theoreritical phrase "People that wear baggy clothes are thugs" (or something along those lines). I asked why.

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

I think maybe you're assuming that my points are black and white. I think that people are responsible for others emotions, and because of that, should also explain different situations or circumstances if it turns out that they've offended another person. If I were sitting at a table - regardless of race - I'd be upset to see another person served first, and I'd want to know why. I don't think it's difficult to explain that someone called in first.

And I said what if I think he is lying. Is the chef still responsible for my feelings?

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

If you show me a person that has never cried in all of their life, then I'll believe your argument that people learn to cry or not cry when in pain.

That's a cop-out answer because you know people can control their emotions. You said on another thread that men are taught not to cry in front of other men. Babies cry because that's the only means of communication they have. It goes from a reflexive to learned behavior. This is fundamental psychology.

Treating Crying Children Properly

So when someone says "You made me cry" what they are really saying is "I am allowing myself to be so affected by you that I cry".

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

It's possible that you could be a murderer. People have gone to trial for bullying others to death.

So if I call you a "dummy", and you kill yourself, I am a murderer?

I can understand the "bullied to death" trials, but do you know what the conviction rate is? How many people actually are found guilty of murder. In the only cyber-bullying case the lady is appealing, but she was being charged with something other than murder. I don't know the answer to this either.

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

My argument is that no one should attack others, and that people are responsible for others feelings. If your girlfriend killed you, I wouldn't think she was right because she also attacked you. She could simply communicate about the pain that you caused her, you could apologize to her, and she could choose to stay with you or to move on. Attacking another person, verbally or physically, doesn't need to be in that equation.

I'll say again that my argument isn't black and white. I agree with you that there is a point when people can't be responsible for others feelings. I think back to the example I gave before, where the girl had assumed that the boy beside her had been talking about her behind of his back. He wasn't, and because of her own insecurities, she attacked. That's an instance when I say that logic should be more important than emotion. However, if someone were to say to me that I'm black, so I should be a slave - that I'm a woman, so I'm inferior to men - then yes, I'd feel attacked, and that person would be responsible for the pain I feel.

I can agree with you on these statements.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by MMM

You didn't address my point. You said YOU felt discriminated against and stereotyped by the theoreritical phrase "People that wear baggy clothes are thugs" (or something along those lines). I asked why.



And I said what if I think he is lying. Is the chef still responsible for my feelings?



That's a cop-out answer because you know people can control their emotions. You said on another thread that men are taught not to cry in front of other men. Babies cry because that's the only means of communication they have. It goes from a reflexive to learned behavior. This is fundamental psychology.

Treating Crying Children Properly

So when someone says "You made me cry" what they are really saying is "I am allowing myself to be so affected by you that I cry".



So if I call you a "dummy", and you kill yourself, I am a murderer?

I can understand the "bullied to death" trials, but do you know what the conviction rate is? How many people actually are found guilty of murder. In the only cyber-bullying case the lady is appealing, but she was being charged with something other than murder. I don't know the answer to this either.




I can agree with you on these statements.

I felt discriminated against and stereotyped against because I am a part of the culture that wears baggy clothes. He didn't know that - but that doesn't matter. I already explained why.

No, he isn't responsible. As I explained, it's not black and white. There are different levels of responsibility.

I'm sorry... how is that a cop out answer? What do crying babies have to do with the fact that when people feel pain, they cry? Babies are on completely different psychological levels than older men and women - which is what, I'm assuming, we've been talking about for the past few pages. I haven't been arguing about toddlers. I'm arguing about the fact that when people - ADULTS - feel pain, they cry. It's a fact. It's not even up for debate. I've seen it. You've seen it. No need to get stuck on this point.

As I said before, there are different levels of responsibility. It's not black and white. For example, if you called someone a dummy maliciously, while knowing that the person was highly unstable, suicidal, and depressed - and did it to see if they'd hurt themselves - then yes, you'd be responsible. On the other hand, if you didn't know that the person was unstable and suicidal, then it wouldn't be completely your fault - though you, obviously, shouldn't have insulted the person in the first place. Nothing is black and white. People kill others for different reasons, and people who kill aren't always considered murderers. There are instances of self-defense. In the same way that the idea of "murderers" isn't black and white, so is the idea of responsibility for what one says and does to others.

[MMM]

I think we are mostly in agreement, when it gets down to it.

I would say that even in adults, crying is a learned behavior. I am an adult, and I can't remember the last time I cried from pain. However I know of adults that cry weekly or even daily. It's a learned behavior. I am not saying they are necessarily doing it on purpose, but they are allowing themselves to let the emotion take over.

[Aether]

I've seen a lot of debate about what it is to bully in this thread, so to preface my post, I would like to quickly define what I see bullying as. I would broadly define bullying as verbally and/or physically abusing an other or others repeatedly to exhibit dominance with the stipulation that the context should be kept in mind. For example, I would not consider two friends who have a habit of playfully punching each other on the shoulder bullies (in ordinary circumstances), but I would consider a person who frequently calls others names and fights people who they know will not fight back a bully.

With that definition established, I can thankfully say that I have not experienced being a bully or being bullied. However, I do recognize the seriousness of the matter. I realize that being bullied can push a person beyond their limits and cause them to retaliate back or even commit suicide. As such, I've have made a vow with myself that if I see someone being bullied, I will do what I can to assist that person.

Regrettably, I do not know any strong methods to stop bullying itself if I were to encounter it. If there are some ideas of how to stop another or oneself from being bullied, I would be glad to hear it. (Besides ignore it, I see that as one of the worst possible ideas.)