Teenage pregnancy

[koaku]

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork

So my sister should have aborted her baby because she couldn't give him the ideal life?

Should someone who is middle class abort there child, because they cannot give it a upper class life?

Do you know how elitist this sounds? May I ask you, in what optimal condition do you think babies should be born it? Getting the ideal situation does not happen, and by this logic one life (like the phrased used before we are talking about a life, a human life understand what that implies) where they couldn't get the best should have been better dead?

I add to this, one makes of what there situation holds. Look at Obama, should he have ended his life because it wasn't the "best" or optimal"? NO, just NO, but this is what the this logic points to. You don't get the what you want, give up. There is so much wrong with that. One it's not your life, it's someone else. Two GREAT PEOPLE will and can come from humble beginnings. Three life is not fair, make the best of what you got and live happy.



Point though having a abortion for reason such as people who want to go to prom/dances ARE unjustifiable. There is such a thing as unjustifiable abortion.
Then why are children still being born there? So should we also elimate all children in Darfour because, hey they were not going to have a good life. There is hope, and humans have and continue to thrive thought such odds. It is as much fault as the rest of the world sets by, as it is the aggressors.

Children of West Darfur Are Getting an Education

Life is not fair, it's not going to be, AND we have to make best of what we have.

I would also say this, sex is a act to provide more people, AS such you have to accept the consequences of your actions if you choose to do such a thing.(acts are not involuntary so keep that in mind). that means girl gets pregnant it was because she DECIDED to do it, as such with the male. Responsibility will go a long way for anybody.

My point wasnt ABORTION but contraception...If the contraception was so wide-spread there would be probably no problem of abortion

Im not sayin that the solution is to eleminate them THEY ARE ALIVE, but we have to think WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE.?..Why contraception method do not work there (advert, etc...) because that the only way, discuss on "Abortion or not" i dont think its the real problem...A normal person who understand "Im using a condom not ONLY to have no child but also protect each other from HIV or other stuff" that the first step but we are not at this level..

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by koaku

My point wasnt ABORTION but contraception...If the contraception was so wide-spread there would be probably no problem of abortion

Im not sayin that the solution is to eleminate them THEY ARE ALIVE, but we have to think WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE.?..Why contraception method do not work there (advert, etc...) because that the only way, discuss on "Abortion or not" i dont think its the real problem...A normal person who understand "Im using a condom not ONLY to have no child but also protect each other from HIV or other stuff" that the first step but we are not at this level..

What is your first language?

[Nyororin]

Let`s try to keep this from turning into an abortion debate. It`s going down that road fast - and that sort of debate usually turns to flaming closing and banning.
So let`s try to stay back on the topic of teenage pregnancy without delving too deeply into abortion, ok?

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Let`s try to keep this from turning into an abortion debate. It`s going down that road fast - and that sort of debate usually turns to flaming closing and banning.
So let`s try to stay back on the topic of teenage pregnancy without delving too deeply into abortion, ok?

How can you discuss teenage pregnancy without going into abortion?

I mean, you've got the girl pregnant, you either think they should have used contrceptive means or not, then what if they didn't? You talk about abortion. Whether it is a good idea or not. That is the debate. I think you're the one who is slightly off topic...

[MMM]

Because then it becomes a religious topic, and we wouldn't want to go there.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

How can you discuss teenage pregnancy without going into abortion?

I mean, you've got the girl pregnant, you either think they should have used contrceptive means or not, then what if they didn't? You talk about abortion. Whether it is a good idea or not. That is the debate. I think you're the one who is slightly off topic...

Please note - I didn`t say "Do not talk about abortion!".
I said to try and not go too deeply into abortion discussion, and to try to keep a debate from developing. MMM made it pretty clear WHY an abortion debate is a very bad idea.

It is possible, you know, to discuss something without going too deeply / starting a debate / taking things personally / etc.

It`s fine to talk about to an extent, but I wanted to drop in before it turned into a debate over NOTHING other than abortion.

[clairebear]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

What is your first language?

He's French.

[Salvanas]

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork

So my sister should have aborted her baby because she couldn't give him the ideal life?

Should someone who is middle class abort there child, because they cannot give it a upper class life?

Do you know how elitist this sounds? May I ask you, in what optimal condition do you think babies should be born it? Getting the ideal situation does not happen, and by this logic one life (like the phrased used before we are talking about a life, a human life understand what that implies) where they couldn't get the best should have been better dead?

Splendid. Someone who puts words in my mouth! How kind of you!

Where in any of my statements, did I say you had to be upper class? Hm? Pleas,e find it for me, and I'll accept your point.

Until that point, your post is invalid.

The "ideal" environment for a baby to be born, is to a mother who is old enough to understand a babies needs. To a mother who is not a child herself still. To a mother who has atleast finished high school. If that sounds upper class to you, then I don't know what to say.

Note: Lets not make this a religious thread.

EDIT: Sorry, allow me to elaborate why I think such surroundings isn't healthy for a child. Such environments are prone to chaos. A lot of stress is abound in them, and problems arise. Some can turn into violent acts. Research shows that babies that grow up in violent or chaoti surroundings, usually become a danger to the society (my words ofcourse.) in the long run.

So, now if you can't give a baby an ideal environment, you're not just endangering the babys life, but many other people that the baby (in his later life) might end up harming.

[solemnclockwork]

Originally Posted by Salvanas

Splendid. Someone who puts words in my mouth! How kind of you!

Where in any of my statements, did I say you had to be upper class? Hm? Pleas,e find it for me, and I'll accept your point.

Until that point, your post is invalid.

The "ideal" environment for a baby to be born, is to a mother who is old enough to understand a babies needs. To a mother who is not a child herself still. To a mother who has atleast finished high school. If that sounds upper class to you, then I don't know what to say.

Note: Lets not make this a religious thread.

EDIT: Sorry, allow me to elaborate why I think such surroundings isn't healthy for a child. Such environments are prone to chaos. A lot of stress is abound in them, and problems arise. Some can turn into violent acts. Research shows that babies that grow up in violent or chaoti surroundings, usually become a danger to the society (my words ofcourse.) in the long run.

So, now if you can't give a baby an ideal environment, you're not just endangering the babys life, but many other people that the baby (in his later life) might end up harming.

that a big jump of assumptions.

First I deal with "we know who your going to be when your older...." what definitive proof do you have that says that a person (I'm not talking generalizations here) will turn out to be a "bad" person?

Don't we have a saying that ones actions are there own not there FAULT? Point sorry if you had a bad upbringing but that thing you stole/murdered/ whatnot is still something you choose to do. It brings me to a movie I seen recently Midia goes to jail, There was a part where this women kept saying "you don't know what my dad did". Guess what Midia did, she told her to shut up and take responsibility (I'm putting it in polite terms).

Which leads me into another stark contrast to this, and the very reason why I used him first. Obama, stands in against this. He is the United States President, one of the very most powerful positions in the world. Guess what he had a horrible child life.

Psychological studies are at best subjective because we cannot truly test any situation (people are not lab rats, human rights you get the picture), only guess. ALSO people don't stay the same as they age.

FuturePundit: Humans Most Violent When Only 2 Years Old
How Children Become Violent - Understanding Violent Behavior In Children - Violent Kids: Warning Signs | Women's Magazine

I wonder where you got the line "your post is invalid..." On that NO one brought religion into the debate only the mods said not to continue along the lines of the abortion part (to them I'm sorry that I jumped the bought like that, I just got rubbed the wrong way by some posts).

There is a very good reason why I took the liberty to say such a thing (read the third paragraph and you will make a connection between the question). Now you used the word "satisfying", you understand that that such a life very from person to person. Thus having no definitive answer. BECAUSE of that, one can make any assumption as to what you mean, and by that one could also conclude that any body that's not born to idea situation just isn't worth living.

This idea mother, would be good, but that doesn't always happen, NOT at the fault of the child. Ideal situations are nice, but do they rarely occur, especially when someone takes a risk that could bring a unexpected result? the point here, is that you cannot put the blame on someone because of someone actions. One point also to point out, this is generally agreed upon, but still remains in the realm of being subjective (one reason being people of the past had children when there where much younger, had no high school, and could be considered a child).

This also brings me to my last point, PERSONAL responsibility. You commit the act of sex, you make a agreement that you could have a child. Why, you might ask, simple it's a part to the act (might be a weird analogy, but follow it; you put something in your mouth, you know you might swallow it regardless of how careful you are right apply it here). One thing to notice is NO, contraceptive is 100% fool proof (well unless you consider abstinence but that not the debate here). Teenagers must understand the implications of having sex, and the more that it is hit home that you might/will/can whatever have a child the more they take action against such a event.

Someone who could answer, how does teen pregnancy impact Japan, I have a hint because of how they view sex, it's better then here in the United States but I could be wrong.

[Salvanas]

that a big jump of assumptions.

First I deal with "we know who your going to be when your older...." what definitive proof do you have that says that a person (I'm not talking generalizations here) will turn out to be a "bad" person?

Don't we have a saying that ones actions are there own not there FAULT? Point sorry if you had a bad upbringing but that thing you stole/murdered/ whatnot is still something you choose to do. It brings me to a movie I seen recently Midia goes to jail, There was a part where this women kept saying "you don't know what my dad did". Guess what Midia did, she told her to shut up and take responsibility (I'm putting it in polite terms).

Which leads me into another stark contrast to this, and the very reason why I used him first. Obama, stands in against this. He is the United States President, one of the very most powerful positions in the world. Guess what he had a horrible child life.

Psychological studies are at best subjective because we cannot truly test any situation (people are not lab rats, human rights you get the picture), only guess. ALSO people don't stay the same as they age.

FuturePundit: Humans Most Violent When Only 2 Years Old
How Children Become Violent - Understanding Violent Behavior In Children - Violent Kids: Warning Signs | Women's Magazine

I'm sorry. Did you miss the place where I said 'Usually'? Because if you had read it, you wouldn't of had to type out something that I already know.

I wonder where you got the line "your post is invalid..." On that NO one brought religion into the debate only the mods said not to continue along the lines of the abortion part (to them I'm sorry that I jumped the bought like that, I just got rubbed the wrong way by some posts).

Your post was invalid, because you tried to state that I thought the "ideal" mother was someone in an upper class society. And you still haven't addressed that.

The religion comment was not aimed at you. But aimed at everyone in general.

There is a very good reason why I took the liberty to say such a thing (read the third paragraph and you will make a connection between the question). Now you used the word "satisfying", you understand that that such a life very from person to person. Thus having no definitive answer. BECAUSE of that, one can make any assumption as to what you mean, and by that one could also conclude that any body that's not born to idea situation just isn't worth living.

If the mother is not ready for it, and the baby will grow up in a bad environment, I don't see why it should be brought into the world in order to suffer.

You see. Whatever you say, a teenage mother will NEVER be an ideal mother. Never. I can understand your point if the mother was at an optimum age, but we're talking about teenage pregnancies.

This idea mother, would be good, but that doesn't always happen, NOT at the fault of the child. Ideal situations are nice, but do they rarely occur, especially when someone takes a risk that could bring a unexpected result? the point here, is that you cannot put the blame on someone because of someone actions. One point also to point out, this is generally agreed upon, but still remains in the realm of being subjective (one reason being people of the past had children when there where much younger, had no high school, and could be considered a child).

In the past, we thought Mercury was safe to handle too. In the past the death rate was high, and the age at which people died at, were younger than we have today.

My point, life changes.

This also brings me to my last point, PERSONAL responsibility. You commit the act of sex, you make a agreement that you could have a child. Why, you might ask, simple it's a part to the act (might be a weird analogy, but follow it; you put something in your mouth, you know you might swallow it regardless of how careful you are right apply it here). One thing to notice is NO, contraceptive is 100% fool proof (well unless you consider abstinence but that not the debate here). Teenagers must understand the implications of having sex, and the more that it is hit home that you might/will/can whatever have a child the more they take action against such a event.

This doesn't change the fact that they're still unfit to be mothers at such a young age.

What I get from you, is that even if you know that this baby was going to suffer throughout it's life, you would still encourage it to be born in order for it to be some sort of "lesson" to the mother.

I find that wrong. She'll understand her mistake when she has to kill the baby inside her womb. Kill one life, and you can save anothers. If the mother is not ready for it, why would you let her throw her life away, when we have the resources to save her life. She'll learn either way that it was a bad choice.