Who's Your Hero?

[bELyVIS]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

This is a terrible attitude to have. I can't imagine how many innocent you could kill in your self admitted confusion...

In war, many innocents get killed. Fact of life.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Right... you're quite the historian, arn't you?

Can you imagine the stress of being trapped inside a canibal driven Beijing starving to death while a horde of Mongolian barbarians are catapulting your countrymens heads over the city walls... and you never know if you'll be murdered in your sleep to be eaten by your neighbor...

Well, that would be stressful too I admit. But at least you have a chance to hear them coming.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Thanks for that comment. I'd like to know how the pastey white man thinks he can justify saying that.

It was your comment. BTW, I'm a pasty brown man.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Anyway, most tales tell of how the thrill of conquering and excitment of a battle was what most successful warleaders lived for. So, clearly, once again, you're completely deluded.

You are correct in these being tales. Stories always sound better after living through a horrible situation. As far as being deluded, you are the one impressed by these romanticized tales of glorious wars and deaths. All glory is gone when you have to bury the rotting corpses.
I suggest you join the military before making such judgments. I'm sure you too would come back a changed man like my cousin did from Vietnam. Their "trusted Vietnamese guide" lobbed grenades into his troops tent while they felt safe and were sleeping and he was the only survivor. He needs a walker to get around and pisses into a bag. Do you think this didn't affect him mentally? He never wants to talk about how "glorious" war is.

[Ryzorian]

War is the protector of peace, sounds weird I know, but peace can't exist without the threat of war. Not the type of war that you see in Star Wars but the all out, kill everything that moves, total war.

Robert E. Lee himself said "It is a good thing, that war is so Horrible, or else we would enjoy it too much."

It's that horrible aspect that helps prevent it in the first place. No one wants to be that person hideing in the basement waiting for the bomb to hit or the starved neighbors to crash through the door.

Peace's beauty is enjoyed because of war's ugliness.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

In war, many innocents get killed. Fact of life.

Yes. But openly admitting you don't give a fu*k and perhaps even shooting a few yourself isn't helping.

Before modern technology, innocent people almost only suffered either by starvation (which was often not intentional, it just sux) or by people who directly chose to kill them.

Nowadays, war is very cowardly. People have an attitude where their goal is greater than virtue, and they'll do anything to achieve it. Like selling their souls. They're not very deep people.

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

Well, that would be stressful too I admit. But at least you have a chance to hear them coming.

Oh come on. Face it, shit was just as intense back then as it is now.

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

It was your comment. BTW, I'm a pasty brown man.

You're Mexican?

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

You are correct in these being tales. Stories always sound better after living through a horrible situation. As far as being deluded, you are the one impressed by these romanticized tales of glorious wars and deaths. All glory is gone when you have to bury the rotting corpses.

Well, as far as I remember, most raiders, like the Mongols or Huns, always slept outside the city after the battle. They didn't want to clean the mess up and they didn't want to bear the smell, either.

You're still not explaining why these people chose war over peace completely out of choice even if war is "so terrible".

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

I suggest you join the military before making such judgments.

I did. I joined the Australian Infantry. I was a machine gunner. We were going to be deployed to East Timor when the local police authorities decided they didn't approve of my moral perspective, and it'd be a better idea for me to go to court instead of Timor... my career ended at this stage. It sucked; 9 months of full time training for no action. But hey, I did my best. Now I doing next best thing; kick-boxing.

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

I'm sure you too would come back a changed man like my cousin did from Vietnam. Their "trusted Vietnamese guide" lobbed grenades into his troops tent while they felt safe and were sleeping and he was the only survivor. He needs a walker to get around and pisses into a bag. Do you think this didn't affect him mentally? He never wants to talk about how "glorious" war is.

My friends husband was a motorcycle racer some 20 years back (motorbikes are pretty big in my family; if you've seen the movie "The Worlds Fastest Indian", my grandfather helped Burt build that bike, you know; he owned the only bike shop in Invercargil, and my fathers character was featured in that movie, also; he was in the bike gang, the Antarctic Angels, who raced him on the beach). She was watching him at the races one day, when right infront of her he slipped on a bend and fell off. Next thing she knows is what his brains looks like... now she's found a new husband. This man was lazy one day watching a movie, and made his wife and kids go to the shop to get him supplies. On the way, they were hit by a truck, and he lost his wife and 3 young kids. The couple are good together. He thinks it should have been him in that car. What a tragedy.

The point is, from racing bikes to watching movies; shit happens doing the things we love. So the man had a bad war. WOW. He's just lucky he isn't the man I just told you about who had a bad motorbike race, or the man who had a bad movie session.

[bELyVIS]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Yes. But openly admitting you don't give a fu*k and perhaps even shooting a few yourself isn't helping.

Before modern technology, innocent people almost only suffered either by starvation (which was often not intentional, it just sux) or by people who directly chose to kill them.

Nowadays, war is very cowardly. People have an attitude where their goal is greater than virtue, and they'll do anything to achieve it. Like selling their souls. They're not very deep people.

OK, but you have to admit that trying to figure out who an enemy is if they all look the same adds more stress than necessary. If you give a F**k about the enemy, you've lost already.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Oh come on. Face it, shit was just as intense back then as it is now.

So are you saying that soldiers nowadays aren't pussies? I think war is scary if you are using swords or using rifles.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

You're Mexican?

Hispanic you racist! I'll get Mercedesjin on you for that! Actually, my mother's family lived in Arizona since it was part of Spain. They were tough. Fighting Apaches with muskets and bows and arrows only wearing loin cloths and a thick rawhide leather jacket to protect them and all in the hot desert sun.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

You're still not explaining why these people chose war over peace completely out of choice even if war is "so terrible".

War is always for gain. Usually territory or riches or slaves. Most of the time, the person who decides to go to war never fought.
Today, they will go to war over an idea like "freedom". But if you look closely there always is some gain (look at Haliburton in Iraq, Bush and Cheney made money).

Originally Posted by Tenchu

I did. I joined the Australian Infantry. I was a machine gunner. We were going to be deployed to East Timor when the local police authorities decided they didn't approve of my moral perspective, and it'd be a better idea for me to go to court instead of Timor... my career ended at this stage. It sucked; 9 months of full time training for no action. But hey, I did my best. Now I doing next best thing; kick-boxing.

So you were discharged? That sucks if that was what you wanted to do. But now you are, aren't you?

Originally Posted by Tenchu

The point is, from racing bikes to watching movies; shit happens doing the things we love. So the man had a bad war. WOW. He's just lucky he isn't the man I just told you about who had a bad motorbike race.

He didn't want to fight, he was drafted. Also, imagine returning home screwed up like that and having a bunch of hippies throwing stuff at you and calling you "Baby killer". That hurt him worse that losing his friends and use of his leg.
War sucks no matter what. There are heros in all wars. As far as I'm concerned all military personnal are heros even if they just work in supply. Doing a job no one wants makes them heros. Sure there aren't exciting stories about supply guys, but I bet the grunts are happy to get that food and ammo.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Yes. But openly admitting you don't give a fu*k and perhaps even shooting a few yourself isn't helping.

Before modern technology, innocent people almost only suffered either by starvation (which was often not intentional, it just sux) or by people who directly chose to kill them.

Nowadays, war is very cowardly. People have an attitude where their goal is greater than virtue, and they'll do anything to achieve it. Like selling their souls. They're not very deep people.

I want you to explain to me how war in the past was a virtuous event and how soldiers of the past were "deep" individuals.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

I did. I joined the Australian Infantry. I was a machine gunner. We were going to be deployed to East Timor when the local police authorities decided they didn't approve of my moral perspective, and it'd be a better idea for me to go to court instead of Timor... my career ended at this stage. It sucked; 9 months of full time training for no action. But hey, I did my best. Now I doing next best thing; kick-boxing.

Umm.. trying to join the military is not the same as being in the military. Furthermore kickboxing is nothing like war... stop kidding yourself.

I suddenly have respect for the Australian Army. It seems they have standards...

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

If you give a F**k about the enemy, you've lost already.

Children are your enemy?

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

So are you saying that soldiers nowadays aren't pussies? I think war is scary if you are using swords or using rifles.

I was saying soldiers nowadays are pussies. Not all of them, of course. But there's much more cases of psychological problems now than I've ever heard about before.

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

War is always for gain. Usually territory or riches or slaves. Most of the time, the person who decides to go to war never fought.
Today, they will go to war over an idea like "freedom". But if you look closely there always is some gain (look at Haliburton in Iraq, Bush and Cheney made money).

Actually, most stories that I'm familiar with of medieval battles, the leaders almost always fought on the front lines.

Attila, Alexander, Genghis Khan, most Roman Generals, Richard the Lionhearted, Erik the Red... the list goes on. Even George Bush was a US Airforce pilot at one stage.

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

So you were discharged? That sucks if that was what you wanted to do. But now you are, aren't you?

Now I am what? I don't understand this.

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

He didn't want to fight, he was drafted. Also, imagine returning home screwed up like that and having a bunch of hippies throwing stuff at you and calling you "Baby killer". That hurt him worse that losing his friends and use of his leg.
War sucks no matter what. There are heros in all wars. As far as I'm concerned all military personnal are heros even if they just work in supply. Doing a job no one wants makes them heros. Sure there aren't exciting stories about supply guys, but I bet the grunts are happy to get that food and ammo.

Actually, there are some decent stories about "supply guys". I remember a story, I forget what war it was, but I know the story is true. The Infantry were getting smashed and needed artillery support. The artillery had run dry of ammo, and the chefs had to load up the shells and carry them fucking far (these shells are heavy) by hand. They saved the day!

Anyway, yes, conscription sux. No complaining.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I want you to explain to me how war in the past was a virtuous event and how soldiers of the past were "deep" individuals.

Not all soldiers in the past were. But there used to be a time when murdering innocent women and children was considered cowardly, and a bad thing to do. There are countless Armies that never did such things.

Nowadays, there is no Army in the world that could give the slightest fuck about innocent people.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Umm.. trying to join the military is not the same as being in the military. Furthermore kickboxing is nothing like war... stop kidding yourself.

I suddenly have respect for the Australian Army. It seems they have standards...

See, you're doing it again. You feel threatened, and you have to try and defend yourself by making me look pathetic.

I didn't try to join the military, I joined it. I completed training (9 months instead of the regular 6 months because we were going straight into deployment). I did a march out parade and was earning a full professional soldiers salary. I also won Champion Soldier award in Townsville in 2007, and my section ranked first out of about 50. This was mostly because I was so fit; for example, I was saving every dollar I could get because I wanted to leave the Army after 4 years to study Kung Fu in China, so instead of paying taxi to go all over the city, I would run (kind of a Forest Gump thing). On top of regular Infantry training, I was running 5 - 10km a day, and also attending local Karate and Kung Fu classes. It wasn't hard for me to get insane times in the Champion Soldier competitions; which consisted mostly of endurance exercises, shooting skills, and remembering "tabulated data".

So go fuck yourself, Ronin. Losing me was one of my companies worst days that year. It was the police that got me fucked, not the Army.

And your comment about kick-boxing, although half true, is pretty fucking arrogant it almost classes as retarded. How hard I'm now working to develop mental, spiritual and physical skills, I feel is something you'll never know.

At the end of the day, I've done my best. You saying it wasn't good enough and asking for more... why don't you try it yourself?

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

See, you're doing it again. You feel threatened, and you have to try and defend yourself by making me look pathetic.

I didn't try to join the military, I joined it. I completed training (9 months instead of the regular 6 months because we were going straight into deployment). I did a march out parade and was earning a full professional soldiers salary. I also won Champion Soldier award in Townsville in 2007, and my section ranked first out of about 50. This was mostly because I was so fit; for example, I was saving every dollar I could get because I wanted to leave the Army after 4 years to study Kung Fu in China, so instead of paying taxi to go all over the city, I would run (kind of a Forest Gump thing). On top of regular Infantry training, I was running 5 - 10km a day, and also attending local Karate and Kung Fu classes. It wasn't hard for me to get insane times in the Champion Soldier competitions; which consisted mostly of endurance exercises, shooting skills, and remembering "tabulated data".

So go fuck yourself, Ronin. Losing me was one of my companies worst days that year. It was the police that got me fucked, not the Army.

And your comment about kick-boxing, although half true, is pretty fucking arrogant it almost classes as retarded. How hard I'm now working to develop mental, spiritual and physical skills, I feel is something you'll never know.

Lol... who's threatened?

It's not me that is trying to put my masculine merits on display. I actually had intellect in mind when I made the comment about the Aussie army having standards.

Furthermore my comment made concerning your comments about people who have ACTUALLY served in combat.

More to the point. You didn't serve in combat... so can you please stop calling those that have "faggots".

As for kickboxing... All I did was say that kickboxing is nothing like war. It's true. You even agreed with me yourself. So I fail to see how it could be "so arrogant that it's retarded" (which doesn't even make logical sense)