Should the president be able to address school children

[Tyrien]

Originally Posted by MMM

Next week the US president is planning on addressing all of the nation's school children in a televised address to encourage them to keep up with their studies and stay in school.

Extreme right-wing conservatives are calling this an opportunity for the president to indoctrinate and brainwash America's children with socialist ideals.

What do you think?

I'm not sure what there's to discuss other than a select group of people who are being completely irrational.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

maybe it is but thats how i see it and thats how i have seen it especially since i had time to step out of this country and look at it from a distance.

That makes even less sense...
Looking at something from a distance makes you see how things are?

Originally Posted by Sinestra

I spent time watching many of those town hall meetings and im sorry but they sound selfish deep majority of us are selfish and self preservation comes to the forefront when we feel like we are going to lose something.

So basically because of couple of uninformed few voicing their distaste in townhalls for what they to believe to be "huge government" makes a majority of all Americans quote:

Originally Posted by Sinestra

"Bottom line majority of Americans are selfish and only want change if it directly benefits them not their neighbor or the homeless guy on the street who ran into some bad luck. When they feel like they are going to lose something to the next guy then they get all up and arms and start clinging to religion and guns therefore the whole of country suffers from their lack on insight. "

People at town halls (the opposition to the government plan) American's feel everyday we are losing something with this kind of government as we watch the country go into uncontrolled debt while we sacrifice ourselves for others who don't want to help themselves, in helping other parts of the world and in fighting those who want to destroy America. We are told 50 million can't get insurance but when you take out the ones who would rather spend their money else where, you get estimates like 8 million who can't afford gold plated insurance. From that 8 million you have the portion in the poverty level, where their are existing programs that they are simply not aware of. No one knows the true number but you understand the reasoning of fear because of these unknowns?[/quote]

There is a cost of health care problem in America, no one is debating that, but clearing the slate, starting a new giant government program while not attacking the true health care problem is WHY you see the country divided down the middle on this issue.

The fact that some want to avoid the problems this plan because they believe it being unsustainable and something the country can't afford at the cost of helping what some believe is only 5% - 10% of the entire population doesn't make quote:

Originally Posted by Sinestra

"Bottom line majority of Americans are selfish and only want change if it directly benefits them not their neighbor or the homeless guy on the street who ran into some bad luck. When they feel like they are going to lose something to the next guy then they get all up and arms and start clinging to religion and guns therefore the whole of country suffers from their lack on insight. "

Originally Posted by Sinestra

When i hear people say they would rather keep a broken system them try to find an alternative i want to cry.

All want health care costs down... They just don't believe what Obama is serving up is going to do it nor can we afford. No one wants a worse situation than we have now. Obama is presenting a solution that no one can successfully prove is sustainable or achievable.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Second what America has done in the past has no baring on what im talking about now. So dont even bring that to the front. Americans tend to help other countries before we help each other and thats a problem.

That shouldn't be written as "in the past" its true today too.
Really, I think it has every baring.
You say we help other countries but the majority of Americans are selfish etc(see your quote).
You contradict yourself.
The American mindset is incompatible with being a super power and not doing what we do for the world.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Not that we shouldn't help others but sometimes we do it at the expense of Americans. You took the world selfish and used the most extreme term to define your point. However i will concede that 99.9% was over the top i was a little heated at the time i wrote my post, however my remarks about selfishness still stands and not to the degree of throwing babies in rivers and dinning on puppy and kitten stew as you so stated. Its quite obvious what i stating as others have already gotten what i was trying to say.

I have no problem with your doing a 180 here. But then two sentences down you say you stand by the remarks for the original post stand.

I say the majority are Americans are NOT what you say.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Am I bitter yes i am im bitter about homelessness, im bitter about people not having health care, im bitter about people honestly thinking that their something wrong with the president telling children to do well in school. Yea you could say im bitter that does not mean i dont want to see the country flourish or for our deep rooted problems to be fixed and its going to take all citizens not being selfish in order to fix certain problems. Its not about being opposed to Obama's plan its about what has been rearing its ugly head lately.

Its fine to be bitter about such items of dispare in America, but your blame and mindset presenting that "insert your original crazy post" is beyond overboard. There will ALWAYS be people like this in the world, but do you really think a majority?

Originally Posted by Sinestra

If your going to call me a troll you might want to look up the definition of the term since i am certainly not one. I am active member on this forum daily and take part in these kind of discussions frequently your point is mute.

Daily participants can be trolls too. Maybe I went overboard in calling you one or using the incorrect word for what you are, but if someone posts something as ridiculous as.. the majority of American, the majority of Japanese, the majority of <insert group> are blah blah blah... expect a follow-up.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

But in the spirit of having a positive i apologize if i offended you this was not my intention. This is a very important issue to me and iv seen very disappointing behavior as of late from Americans.

Oh brother....

[MMM]

Originally Posted by SSJup81

I still find nothing wrong with it. I had to do assignments for Reagan and Bush Sr. I don't recall the adults around me getting upset over it. The Reagan thing, I had to write a letter for that. I don't remember the contents, just know I had to do it. What is the big deal to having a homework assignment to write letters to YOURSELF about how you can help the President? I interpreted this to mean how can you help by doing the things mentioned (how can you do well in school; how can you improve your grades, etc.). You're helping the President by becoming better students.

The problem is, SSJup81, there was no culture of paranoia...not only culture, but industry of paranoia surrounding Bush, Sr. and Reagan. So what's the difference? Is it his age, level of experience, color, non-traditional background? Any of these things? All of these things? I don't know. But I just read a partial transcript of Rush Limbaugh's show from yesterday, and it is nothing short of fear-mongering. Here are a couple quotes:

LIMBAUGH: He is lying, President Obama is, from the moment he opens his mouth until he ends the speech. I was shouting "You're lying!" throughout the speech at the television. "You're lying! It's a lie!" Joe Wilson simply articulated what millions of Americans were saying.

LIMBAUGH: If you want to talk about demeaning the chamber, the president of the United States demeaned the chamber last night. He showed up and lied through his teeth. He was petulant, he was mean-spirited, he was angry, he was arrogant, conceited, condescending, but more than anything else, he lied through his teeth. And everybody knows it.

LIMBAUGH (as Obama): I'm in the process of destroying your country. I don't like it at all. I don't like this Constitution. It wasn't written for me. I never had a chance to vote for it. I've been saddled with it, and my people have been saddled with it, and my party has been saddled with it, and we hate this Constitution....The first thing I can do if I had a chance is rip the Constitution to shreds. I know we're not to the point I can do that yet in front of you, so I'm going to do it while you can't see me doing it, all the while telling you I support what you support.

This guy talks like this for three or four hours a day, then turn off the mic, light up a cigar and watch Beck and Hannity and all the other cable pundits do it all night.

My point is, there is an industry of people that get paid a lot of good money to tear the president apart for several hours a day. They don't have to fact check or show any responsibility, because they are not "journalists". The problem is there are people that 1) trust them and 2) hang on their every word. Rush Limbaugh cannot possibly believe all the lies that come out of his mouth, but the problem is there are people that do.

What it does is slowly create a culture where elected and respected officials will yell things at the president while he is speaking. One person I was talking to recently said she has lost respect for the office of the president, she hated Obama so much. It's one thing to not like the man, but to go so far as to no longer respect the office of president is a fantastic leap in common sense. I think another example is the topic of this thread.

[Naoko]

Honestly...I just look at all this and shake my head. For those who don't think that his race had anything to do with it, think again. Please be intelligent enough to not ignore the fact that racism does exist actively in this country. Just because there's a black man in office doesn't mean it suddenly disappeared. It's easy to deny something when it doesn't directly hit on you. However, I was spit on by a white person not more than a week after the inauguration because "All of you n*****s put that p.o.s. in the WHITE house!!"

Funny thing is, I didn't even vote, heh.

Do I think all white people are like that? Nope. Will I forget or ignore that there are people (white or otherwise) who think like that? Nope. I've sat and listened to people's conversations about potential policies, and sometimes I get to hear two people having an intelligent, unbiased discussion. They are truly just not happy with those policies. Then there are others who have no foundation to their issues aside from "I don't trust anything 'that man' says."

Okay...fair enough. Why?

"Just because." <= That's not doing it for me. From what I've seen, this man hasn't done anything wrong. I could throw a "yet" in there, but if you want to see it that way, you need to look at every past and future president in the same light. Do I not agree with some of the approaches to his policies? No. I think parts of the healthcare plan needs to be revamped. Am I completely opposed? No. At least he's TRYING. Instead of spitting out negative crap, why don't people try sending in a letter or something stating what parts they don't like, why, and what they feel could be done to IMPROVE it. It's called constructive criticism. People need to get with the plan.

He fails. We ALL fail.

It's obvious the news reporters are bored. When you have nothing better to report than how the First Lady wore shorts when she was hiking in near 100 degree heat, I think it's time to find a new career. Other presidents practically LIVED on vacation...yet this man takes one - not to mention, he was working during said vacation, and it ended early - and people blow a gasket.

Just, grr. I can feel myself getting upset..and it has nothing to do with the President. It's coming from having to live day to day among people who really do believe in this foolishness, and are ignorant enough to be satisfied with it. It's like the only thing the majority of this country likes is fear-mongering, and terribly misplaced assertions of someone's ability. It's like a pack of bitter women...all feeding off drama. All while our country crumbles because of it. It's sad to watch.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by MMM

The problem is, SSJup81, there was no culture of paranoia...not only culture, but industry of paranoia surrounding Bush, Sr. and Reagan. So what's the difference? Is it his age, level of experience, color, non-traditional background? Any of these things? All of these things? I don't know. But I just read a partial transcript of Rush Limbaugh's show from yesterday, and it is nothing short of fear-mongering. Here are a couple quotes:

LIMBAUGH: He is lying, President Obama is, from the moment he opens his mouth until he ends the speech. I was shouting "You're lying!" throughout the speech at the television. "You're lying! It's a lie!" Joe Wilson simply articulated what millions of Americans were saying.

LIMBAUGH: If you want to talk about demeaning the chamber, the president of the United States demeaned the chamber last night. He showed up and lied through his teeth. He was petulant, he was mean-spirited, he was angry, he was arrogant, conceited, condescending, but more than anything else, he lied through his teeth. And everybody knows it.

LIMBAUGH (as Obama): I'm in the process of destroying your country. I don't like it at all. I don't like this Constitution. It wasn't written for me. I never had a chance to vote for it. I've been saddled with it, and my people have been saddled with it, and my party has been saddled with it, and we hate this Constitution....The first thing I can do if I had a chance is rip the Constitution to shreds. I know we're not to the point I can do that yet in front of you, so I'm going to do it while you can't see me doing it, all the while telling you I support what you support.

This guy talks like this for three or four hours a day, then turn off the mic, light up a cigar and watch Beck and Hannity and all the other cable pundits do it all night.

My point is, there is an industry of people that get paid a lot of good money to tear the president apart for several hours a day. They don't have to fact check or show any responsibility, because they are not "journalists". The problem is there are people that 1) trust them and 2) hang on their every word. Rush Limbaugh cannot possibly believe all the lies that come out of his mouth, but the problem is there are people that do.

What it does is slowly create a culture where elected and respected officials will yell things at the president while he is speaking. One person I was talking to recently said she has lost respect for the office of the president, she hated Obama so much. It's one thing to not like the man, but to go so far as to no longer respect the office of president is a fantastic leap in common sense. I think another example is the topic of this thread.

MMM was this quoted from his radio show directly after his speech? I make it a point to try not to listen to Limbaugh's antics but the last portion on that statement was astonishing even for Rush. Rush gets paid big bucks to stir up the fear mongers. Do i think he believes half of the crap he spews out his mouth i really dont know. Do you have a link to his what he said?

If anyone thinks that race has no baring on how some people feel about this man being in office then they are obviously choosing to close their eyes. The fact that someone said i must be an Obama supporter because im black tells me a bit of what some of us already know. I do like Obama and yes i voted for him do i agree with everything he has done no, do i agree with his health care plan 100% no. But im willing to give him some room to try to fix a broken system in which people die in hospitals thats right IN HOSPITALS every year. There have been several cases this year alone of people dying in waiting rooms because of lack insurance and long wait times because of it.

Now the thing is the mood in Washington is a bit different than a lot of places. Im in D.C. everyday and i live in suburbs so i see the inner city side and i see the middle class side and their is not as much "fear" around here as their is other states. Maybe people who live far from the capital feel displaced or out of touch with this new president. So when they hear people like Rush they believe him because he is a so called "political expert".

I will never understand how someone could want to see him fail. I didnt like George Bush but i never wished for him to fail. For the govornment to fail it hurts us all.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

MMM was this quoted from his radio show directly after his speech? I make it a point to try not to listen to Limbaugh's antics but the last portion on that statement was astonishing even for Rush. Rush gets paid big bucks to stir up the fear mongers. Do i think he believes half of the crap he spews out his mouth i really dont know. Do you have a link to his what he said?

I am assuming it was the next morning.

Here is where I found it

And I think you are right, Rush isn't speaking to people in Washington DC, because for the most part they don't listen (they are too educated) but he is speaking to people in places farther away that do not feel connected to Washington.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by MMM

I am assuming it was the next morning.

Here is where I found it

And I think you are right, Rush isn't speaking to people in Washington DC, because for the most part they don't listen (they are too educated) but he is speaking to people in places farther away that do not feel connected to Washington.

hum wow thats all i can really say im still taken back by it. It actually hurt me so much to read those statements im at a loss for words. These kinds of statements really piss me off and sometimes i stick my foot i my mouth as shown earlier lol but seriously i really dont understand this guy i dont get his angle.

In the metropolitan area (Washington DC, Maryland, N Virigina) there is a lot of discussion about the health care topic. You can hear in the local Starbucks in Georgetown, on the metro, or in some local hangouts of lobbyist and diplomats. But its got a different feel than what iv seen on Tv or have read in papers. A lot of my customers work for the governement they buy cars from us and even just casually talking to them about whats going even if we disagree i dont see the hate or animosty i read about or see. I think your right given population of educated people in area who are not as likely to listen to Rush's show.

[samurai007]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

MMM was this quoted from his radio show directly after his speech? I make it a point to try not to listen to Limbaugh's antics but the last portion on that statement was astonishing even for Rush. Rush gets paid big bucks to stir up the fear mongers. Do i think he believes half of the crap he spews out his mouth i really dont know. Do you have a link to his what he said?

If anyone thinks that race has no baring on how some people feel about this man being in office then they are obviously choosing to close their eyes. The fact that someone said i must be an Obama supporter because im black tells me a bit of what some of us already know. I do like Obama and yes i voted for him do i agree with everything he has done no, do i agree with his health care plan 100% no. But im willing to give him some room to try to fix a broken system in which people die in hospitals thats right IN HOSPITALS every year. There have been several cases this year alone of people dying in waiting rooms because of lack insurance and long wait times because of it.

Now the thing is the mood in Washington is a bit different than a lot of places. Im in D.C. everyday and i live in suburbs so i see the inner city side and i see the middle class side and their is not as much "fear" around here as their is other states. Maybe people who live far from the capital feel displaced or out of touch with this new president. So when they hear people like Rush they believe him because he is a so called "political expert".

I will never understand how someone could want to see him fail. I didnt like George Bush but i never wished for him to fail. For the govornment to fail it hurts us all.

Since 98% of black voters voted for Obama, it's not a stretch to say "Oh, you're black, you must be an Obama supporter." It was racist of many black voters that looked only at skin color and voted on that basis alone, IMO. If 98% of whites voted for McCain, you'd DEFINITELY hear about how racist that is, how whites obviously voted based on skin color alone, and that it was shameful. And rightfully so. So why are we supposed to pretend otherwise when 98% of black voters voted against the white guy?

Second, a whole lot of Leftists wanted Bush to fail. They did not support the war, or in many cases, even the troops. They wanted to pull out before the job was done, before Bush could "succeed". Everyone from Murtha to Kerry to Reid and Pelosi, to Obama himself, criticized Bush and didn't want him to succeed in the war on terror, or in a host of other efforts and programs. It's revisionist history to claim otherwise.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by samurai007

Since 98% of black voters voted for Obama, it's not a stretch to say "Oh, you're black, you must be an Obama supporter." It was racist of many black voters that looked only at skin color and voted on that basis alone, IMO. If 98% of whites voted for McCain, you'd DEFINITELY hear about how racist that is, how whites obviously voted based on skin color alone, and that it was shameful. And rightfully so. So why are we supposed to pretend otherwise when 98% of black voters voted against the white guy?

Second, a whole lot of Leftists wanted Bush to fail. They did not support the war, or in many cases, even the troops. They wanted to pull out before the job was done, before Bush could "succeed". Everyone from Murtha to Kerry to Reid and Pelosi, to Obama himself, criticized Bush and didn't want him to succeed in the war on terror, or in a host of other efforts and programs. It's revisionist history to claim otherwise.

I don't think it is fair to say democratic politicians wanted the war to fail. Different people have different definitions of success and whether proceeding was a good idea for America or not, but I don't think you would find anyone in Washington that truly wanted (or wants) America to lose in Iraq and Afghanistan. And I have heard of no one that was anti-troop, even if they were against the war. Anti-war protesters learned that lesson in Vietnam and in Gulf War I. There may be private individuals who are anti-troop, but again, I I haven't seen anything out of Washington to support that.

[samurai007]

Originally Posted by MMM

I don't think it is fair to say democratic politicians wanted the war to fail. Different people have different definitions of success and whether proceeding was a good idea for America or not, but I don't think you would find anyone in Washington that truly wanted (or wants) America to lose in Iraq and Afghanistan. And I have heard of no one that was anti-troop, even if they were against the war. Anti-war protesters learned that lesson in Vietnam and in Gulf War I. There may be private individuals who are anti-troop, but again, I I haven't seen anything out of Washington to support that.

Than you weren't really paying attention.

Gen. Petraeus was called "General Betray us".

Murtha said that US marines at Haditha murdered civilians in cold blood, when in fact they were exonerated of all charges.

Sen. John Kerry told Bob Schieffer on CBS' "Face the Nation" that "there is no reason that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women . . . ." This was a more modest reprise of his post-Vietnam charges that U.S. troops had raped, tortured and pillaged in the tradition of Genghis Khan.

Ted Kennedy said "Saddam's torture chamber has reopened under new management."

Dick Durbin exclaimed that "describing what Americans had done to prisoners under our control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by the Nazis, Soviets in their gulags or some mad regime — Pol Pot or others — that had no concern for human beings."

Do you really think calling out troops cold-blooded murderers who terrorize women and children in the night, and act like the Nazis, Soviets, or Pol Pot, is supporting our troops or offering constructive criticism on how to win the war? HELL NO! These damaging lies and insinuations were outright attacks on the troops' and the country's morale. And they were done because they wanted Bush to fail, even if it also meant the country failing and troops dying. Remember Columbia professor De Genova calling for "a million Mogadishus" and saying "The only true heroes are those who find ways that help defeat the U.S. military"? The words and actions of a great many Dems, both in Congress and marching in protests, showed they agreed with those sentiments at some level.

"A million Mogadishus" - Salon.com