Should the president be able to address school children

[MMM]

Originally Posted by samurai007

And if the Hitler Youth comparison isn't to your liking, how about the North Korean kids forced to sing praises to Dear Leader? That is just as apt without the genocidal connotations...

What happened? I'm feeling frisky today! LOL.

And yes, the loyalty pledge is a referring to the written promise to "help Obama". You can't believe that the left would have sat quietly by while George W. Bush gave a secret speech to America's kids, and then required them to write about how they'll "help George Bush". There would have been outrage.

Now, a few questions from me... what do you think of those videos? Had you seen them during the election, or are they new to you now? Do you see how that kind of creepy indoctrination might fuel the worry of parents? Do you, in fact, see them as at all creepy or troubling and a cult of personality, or do you see it as innocent patriotism?

The president had nothing to do with the kids singing that creepy song. That's the fundamental difference with N. Korea. If one of the American kids would have messed up there would have been a retake. If one of the N. Korean kids messed up...

Promise? What promise? Ooh? There was a secret speech? When? I would like to more.

That video of school children singing to Obama was new to me. I hadn't seen it before you posted it. I think it is creepy but also know the Obama campaign had nothing to do with it, so what can I say? There are nuts on all sides.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by MMM

Please, Clint, don't put words in my mouth. I did not say all listeners of Rush were not savvy. However I do compare him to a news show because I believe a lot of listeners believe he is a journalist reporting news. All of them? No.

I don't think Rush is "brainwashing" people. This is a term people like to toss around. Maybe I am old fashioned or too literal, but I don't think Rush is brainwashing people, and I don't think Obama is either. I think some people need to look up "brainwash" in a dictionary.

It sounds like if you had your way, no one would be able to question or disagree with government and Rush and the like would be silenced and free speech would be out the door.

Did I really say anything to support this statement? If I did, show me.

I said questioning and scrutinizing the government is a good thing, and its our responsibility. However, stirring up a storm of hatred and mistrust just because it is your job is irresponsible. I didn't say Rush should be taken off the air, I said the people listening to him should check his "facts". The problem is they won't. That isn't his fault, but I believe he and other talk-show hosts should show more responsibility in the things they say. It's thanks to him we get people coming to town halls asking Congressmen "Why do you support Obama's Nazi policies?"

How is this opening the door to intelligent discussion? It isn't. It's a distraction, and that's what 90% of Rush and Hannity and Beck etc. shows are: distractions.

Okay okay... Don't want to put words in your mouth... to those FEWWWWW savvy listeners.
Well to those small few who you believe that can't tell the difference between a news program than to commentary/opinion, I would not say they are much of a threat. They would have to ahve a brain the size of a pea. So what are you worried about?

Originally Posted by MMM

What it does is slowly create a culture where elected and respected officials will yell things at the president while he is speaking.

That is pretty much where I got the brainwashing...

You know ...even in the presidents last speech he rolled up opposing elected officials with talk radio... should those opposing elected officials be more responsible too? Wouldn't want the unsavvy to get confused and question anyone.

You know... what we need is legislation... to make people check other's facts... that would solve all this.....wait a minute... we are going to have to exclude fact checking on the government..... hold on ... this bill is getting kinda of lengthy....

Distractions to not following what your government tells you to do? We wouldn't want to encourage free thinking..
We sure can't have anyone stirring the pot. That would be horrible. One would call most of government legislation distractions.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by clintjm

Okay okay... Don't want to put words in your mouth... to those FEWWWWW savvy listeners.
Well to those small few who you believe that can't tell the difference between a news program than to commentary/opinion, I would not say they are much of a threat. They would have to ahve a brain the size of a pea. So what are you worried about?

That is pretty much where I got the brainwashing...

You know ...even in the presidents last speech he rolled up opposing elected officials with talk radio... should those opposing elected officials be more responsible too? Wouldn't want the unsavvy to get confused and question anyone.

You know... what we need is legislation... to make people check other's facts... that would solve all this.....wait a minute... we are going to have to exclude fact checking on the government..... hold on ... this bill is getting kinda of lengthy....

Distractions to not following what your government tells you to do? We wouldn't want to encourage free thinking..
We sure can't have anyone stirring the pot. That would be horrible. One would call most of government legislation distractions.

I hate having to repeat myself, but creating a culture where we slowly chip away at the respect we should have for the office of the president (not the man, the office) and "brainwashing" are different things.

And what am I worried about? It only takes one person with the brain the size of a pea to load a gun and go to a public speaking event.

[samurai007]

Originally Posted by MMM

The president had nothing to do with the kids singing that creepy song. That's the fundamental difference with N. Korea. If one of the American kids would have messed up there would have been a retake. If one of the N. Korean kids messed up...

Promise? What promise? Ooh? There was a secret speech? When? I would like to more.

That video of school children singing to Obama was new to me. I hadn't seen it before you posted it. I think it is creepy but also know the Obama campaign had nothing to do with it, so what can I say? There are nuts on all sides.

More and more, I think there are 2 Americas... a red state America and a blue state America. In red state America, that video of the kids was very, very common knowledge. There was a lot of talk about it when it first showed up:

Kids Sing for Change Obama Video | Bitten and Bound

I found the video quite disturbing, and I find I am not alone in my assessment.

From AOL:

… it is eerie. What on earth are children doing praying to a political candidate? I’m not sure what bothers me most: Is it their glassy-eyed stares? Is it their Children of the Corn-fed good looks? Their hypnotized vibrato-less tones?

From The Washington Post:

Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid

It is possible to criticize one side without endorsing the other, right?

Just to keep things in perspective, take a glance at this vision of our future in Obamaland. All those who find Christian camps terrifying, brace yourselves.

From The Anchoress:

It creeped me out in 2000 when people stood on a streetcorner handing out lyrics and singing songs about how Hillary Clinton was “a human statue of liberty…” who would solve all the world’s problems.

It creeps me out even more to see children exploited – to serenade and “lighten the community” – about Dear Leader Obama, and the glorious “we” who are going to spread “happiness.” Or, more accurately, the glorious “they” who will spread happiness – partly, it seems, through control of media.

Because “spreading happiness,” apparently, is the role of government. Not to protect the shores, build the infrastructure and get out of the way, but to make us “happy.”

This has more than a little whiff of Havana and Moscow about it, sorry.

From Hot Air:

Their music? No, the music came from the people who wanted to indoctrinate these children, and many others, in the faith of the New Messiah.

From Wizbang:

These kids are already being taught to worship Obama as if he were some kind of god. That’s what kids in North Korea, Cuba, Saddam Hussein’s old Iraq, and other totalitarian regimes were taught to do as well. The purpose is if they grow up seeing their leaders as god-like they’re less likely to rise up against them.

From Pajamas Media:

Watching this video has disturbed me more than almost anything I have seen in recent years. It is the kind of exploitation of children that reminds me of Young Pioneer Camps I saw when visiting the Soviet Union in the Eighties.

Plus all the usuals like Rush, Fox News, and the rest. Yet many on the left are apparently ignorant of these videos, and many, many other things that came out during the campaign. These things, combined with statements from Obama about mandatory service for all youths in America, and creating a domestic force to rival the military, and creating a website where neighbors can rat out anyone spreading disinformation about health care or other issues, and so on and so on, give background context to a pledge for all school children to "help Obama" that you and others on the left, without that context, see as harmless, and don't understand why anyone else could possibly worry about it. If you had the proper context and knew what we know, you might be able to better understand it, or at least see where we're coming from. That's part of my mission here, to bring understanding...

[MMM]

Originally Posted by samurai007

More and more, I think there are 2 Americas... a red state America and a blue state America. In red state America, that video of the kids was very, very common knowledge. There was a lot of talk about it when it first showed up:

Kids Sing for Change Obama Video | Bitten and Bound


Plus all the usuals like Rush, Fox News, and the rest. Yet many on the left are apparently ignorant of these videos, and many, many other things that came out during the campaign. These things, combined with statements from Obama about mandatory service for all youths in America, and creating a domestic force to rival the military, and creating a website where neighbors can rat out anyone spreading disinformation about health care or other issues, and so on and so on, give background context to a pledge for all school children to "help Obama" that you and others on the left, without that context, see as harmless, and don't understand why anyone else could possibly worry about it. If you had the proper context and knew what we know, you might be able to better understand it, or at least see where we're coming from. That's part of my mission here, to bring understanding...

The implication you are making is that red state Americans have access to information that blue state Americans don't. We are ignorant because we don't have all the information you do, but by sharing it with us, we will become educated and smart like you.

Sorry, I am not buying it.

If the vital issues are a music video of children and "What can I do to help the president?" then let me put on my William Shatner mask and say "Get a life." These aren't the issues, these are distractions FROM the issues.

But keep at it. The right laid an egg with the "issue" that is the topic of this thread, and I am sure they will lay some more. I am sure Obama will lay some eggs of his own and the two of us will probably come right here to point them out to each other.

[samurai007]

Originally Posted by MMM

The implication you are making is that red state Americans have access to information that blue state Americans don't. We are ignorant because we don't have all the information you do, but by sharing it with us, we will become educated and smart like you.

Sorry, I am not buying it.

If the vital issues are a music video of children and "What can I do to help the president?" then let me put on my William Shatner mask and say "Get a life." These aren't the issues, these are distractions FROM the issues.

But keep at it. The right laid an egg with the "issue" that is the topic of this thread, and I am sure they will lay some more. I am sure Obama will lay some eggs of his own and the two of us will probably come right here to point them out to each other.

That was the exact same implication some folks here gave about the right, specifically listeners of Hannity and Rush. That they are ignorant, and only get their thoughts and ideas from what Rush tells them. That if only they'd watch MSNBC, NPR, and CBS, plus some more left-leaning websites, they'd learn the truth rather than simply subscribing brainlessly to the "fearmongering".

Well, many on the right feel it's the other way around... that listening and trusting only your leftwing sources, believing only what Keith Olbermann tells you to believe, you miss out on a whole lot of news and you're getting only 1 side of the story (for instance, the lefty media ignored the Van Jones controversy until the day he resigned or later, while Fox and others had been talking about it for a week or more before the resignation.). I watch both both conservative and non-conservative sources, I knew about both McCain and Obama flubs and flaps. I spent more time on left-wing sites than conservative ones during the election because I wanted to hear the other side. Heck, I was even a member of the Hillary Clinton Forum.

But I met a great many leftys on those sites that were utterly clueless about anything negative about their candidate. People who said they'd never even watched a Republican convention in their life, and didn't know where Republicans stood on the issues except what Democrats claimed they stood for. Some of these ignorant people literally hated or feared anyone who said they were Republican, and at the very least immediately made all kinds of assumptions about them (rich, white, racists, etc) because they'd had no exposure to anything other than the party line. It was sad, really.

These 2 videos are not the whole issue, they are emblematic of the deep divide in contextual background between the left and right, and without learning about these and a whole host of other things as well, folks are mystified why anyone could possibly worry about Obama speaking to the kids, and resort to "well, the only possible thing I can think of is racism, because all them Republicans are racist anyways, right? There couldn't possibly be any other reason..."

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by MMM

I hate having to repeat myself, but creating a culture where we slowly chip away at the respect we should have for the office of the president (not the man, the office) and "brainwashing" are different things.

And what am I worried about? It only takes one person with the brain the size of a pea to load a gun and go to a public speaking event.

Unfortunately the respect of the office in reality has to be earned today. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but thats just the way its become. Past behaviour from past and present offices has brought it to this level. So really the office has made its own bed, chipped away at itself, and nothing really should shock anyone other than the continuing behavior of our government.

I understand your distinction between office and the person in the office. And I agree with that distinction.

But when the person in office is dividing the nation, while this person is supposed to be representing the nation, it is impossible for anyone to make that distinction and have respect for either. The last speech was no more than a post-compaign speech while showboating.

There hasn't been a majority respect for the office for a long while and frankly I think government really doesn't care if they have it or not. This administration is a perfect example.

Yes, you can point the finger at any anti-government speech in any form (book, article, blog, talk show, music etc.) and say some weak minded fool may decided to load a gun, but to silence free speech isn't the answer, and that sir, is what you proposing in so many words.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by clintjm

Unfortunately the respect of the office in reality has to be earned today. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but thats just the way its become. Past behaviour from past and present offices has brought it to this level. So really the office has made its own bed, chipped away at itself, and nothing really should shock anyone other than the continuing behavior of our government.

I understand your distinction between office and the person in the office. And I agree with that distinction.

But when the person in office is dividing the nation, while this person is supposed to be representing the nation, it is impossible for anyone to make that distinction and have respect for either. The last speech was no more than a post-compaign speech while showboating.

There hasn't been a majority respect for the office for a long while and frankly I think government really doesn't care if they have it or not. This administration is a perfect example.

Yes, you can point the finger at any anti-government speech in any form (book, article, blog, talk show, music etc.) and say some weak minded fool may decided to load a gun, but to silence free speech isn't the answer, and that sir, is what you proposing in so many words.

You had me until the last sentence. You don't conservatives any favors when you twist my words into what you want me to say.

[burkhartdesu]

Originally Posted by MMM

These aren't the issues, these are distractions FROM the issues.

As is this thread.

[Ryzorian]

It's not like most Americans trust any of thier elected leaders anyway, it's kinda traditional that we don't.