Russia: Champion of WWII

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by wasabijuice

I think you mean biased american media, movies, pop culture. Not people who actually study history.

Yeah, yeah, the idiot soviets saved the world from Hitler developing the bomb first. They saved us by stopping him at Stalingrad, yeah yeah. Had they not conspired with them in the beginning to cut up Poland, they wouldn't have had to sacrifice 20million for defense of the motherland. Then that good guy Stalin kills another 20 million while collectivizing his empire. Heroes? Are you kidding me? The soviet leaders brought it upon themselves and sacrificed their best and brightest because of their own stupidity, arrogance. Then their genocide in the Ukraine, on their "own" soviet people?

Yes soviet soldiers were heroic, undeniably so. But the Soviet Leadership was as hapless as Hitler with a hangover.

Your post refelcts you avatar... arrogant.

[trunker]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Bullshit is eaten by the idiots.

indeed but bullshit also flows both ways.

swallowing someone else's bullshit does not make you any less an idiot, which i do believe is the whole point of this thread no?

[wasabijuice]

Originally Posted by iPhantom

More than half of Hitler's army was killed by Soviets. Enjoy your invalid post.

Exactly, so the other half was killed by John Wayne, David Niven and Jon Bon Jovi , in that order. I just don't buy the argument that Stalin saved the world at Stalingrad, because it was his mistake to align with them in the beginning.

[Ronin4hire]

Oh FFS... You're all guilty of emotionally spinning history.

What happened happened... any spin you put on it is just that. And any comparisons you make are going to be to suit your own agendas.

Thread over.

[Sinestra]

I must admit i have very limited knowledge of the Russian perspective of WWII, i just never got around to studying it.

Can someone post some reliable non biased (if thats even possible) sites for me to read.

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by wasabijuice

Exactly, so the other half was killed by John Wayne, David Niven and Jon Bon Jovi , in that order. I just don't buy the argument that Stalin saved the world at Stalingrad, because it was his mistake to align with them in the beginning.

So what? That has nothing to do with it.

Truth is and this is a fact: Russia defeated a larger and more advanced part of Nazi (google for 'Waffen SS'). Also, Germany had around 80% of the concentration on the eastern front.

In other words, Russia was the main guy out there, others were just 'assisting'.

Seriously, what did USA do? Can you tell me how many US soldiers died? They all make it pretty dramatic in movies etc. but compared to US, Russia was in a freaking nightmare.

Soviet Union - 10,700,000
USA - 416,800

The Battle of Stalingrad was the main factor of defining how the war would end.

[wasabijuice]

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. " - George S. Patton

Seriously, what did USA do? Can you tell me how many US soldiers died? They all make it pretty dramatic in movies etc. but compared to US, Russia was in a freaking nightmare.

Soviet Union - 10,700,000
USA - 416,800

They won on the eastern front through human wave type fighting. Expending their people, their only resource.

We won on the western front by expending our technology, material, not our best resource, our people.

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by wasabijuice

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. " - George S. Patton

That guy was in US Army. Want me to go get some Russian dudes quotes? Oh wait, no because I don't need to.

They won on the eastern front through human wave type fighting. Expending their people, their only resource.

We won on the western front by expending our technology, material, not our best resource, our people.

I knew you'd say this. Well, you can't say anything else. Just do some philosophy about war, because as for facts you have brought none.

But you still prove nothing. I never said USA lost. Allies won. But the main contributor was Russia. Get over it.

If Germany had sent the same amount of troops (also the best) in Wester front (in other words if it was the other way it happened), Normandy would have been a large failure for USA. And Russia would have gained on the eastern side easily, also a lot less deaths.

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by iPhantom

So what? That has nothing to do with it.

Truth is and this is a fact: Russia defeated a larger and more advanced part of Nazi (google for 'Waffen SS'). Also, Germany had around 80% of the concentration on the eastern front.

In other words, Russia was the main guy out there, others were just 'assisting'.

Seriously, what did USA do? Can you tell me how many US soldiers died? They all make it pretty dramatic in movies etc. but compared to US, Russia was in a freaking nightmare.

Soviet Union - 10,700,000
USA - 416,800

The Battle of Stalingrad was the main factor of defining how the war would end.

Once again, who fed the Soviet Soldiers so they could continue fighting the Germans? It wasn't the Soviet Union. Who made the bullets that were used to shoot the Germans? It wasn't the Soviet Union. Who made the radios, telephones, batteries, and wire so the Soviet Forces could communicate? It wasn't the Soviet Union.

The Soviet Soldiers had little choice but to push ahead and fight the Germans, their officers kept machine guns pointed at them. If the Soviet Soldiers didn't keep up their attacks on the Germans, they risked being shot by their own officers.

Do you know why fewer US soldiers died? Because they were free men with rights, equal to those of their commanders. As such, they were treated and cared for as well as possible, properly fed, properly armed, and used with care.

Do you know why so many Soviet Soldiers died? Because they were peasants, expendable fodder considered less valuable than the weapons they carried. Many of them starved because they weren't properly fed, or died of disease because they weren't properly treated, or were killed in combat because they had no weapons to fight with. In big infantry assaults there were large numbers of unarmed Soviet Soldiers, as there were not enough guns to go around. And for those few guns, there were even less bullets. These unarmed soldiers had no choice but to attack, if they didn't they would be killed by their own commanders.

[Ryzorian]

Let's not forget that those same peasants had to charge German guns unarmed because the "Soviet" Officers would shoot them if they didn't.
Russia suffered mightly this is true, but most of it was caused by themselves.

I was a 12Bravo hooked up with a M1A1 tank company in the 8th division in 91.