Russia: Champion of WWII

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

Once again, who fed the Soviet Soldiers so they could continue fighting the Germans? It wasn't the Soviet Union. Who made the bullets that were used to shoot the Germans? It wasn't the Soviet Union. Who made the radios, telephones, batteries, and wire so the Soviet Forces could communicate? It wasn't the Soviet Union.

UGHHHH yeah Americans are the main winners here. They killed Nazi Army with food and water guns. Seriously, nobody is denying the assistance they gave. But who really fought the war.

The Soviet Soldiers had little choice but to push ahead and fight the Germans, their officers kept machine guns pointed at them. If the Soviet Soldiers didn't keep up their attacks on the Germans, they risked being shot by their own officers.

Do you know why fewer US soldiers died? Because they were free men with rights, equal to those of their commanders. As such, they were treated and cared for as well as possible, properly fed, properly armed, and used with care.

Do you know why so many Soviet Soldiers died? Because they were peasants, expendable fodder considered less valuable than the weapons they carried. Many of them starved because they weren't properly fed, or died of disease because they weren't properly treated, or were killed in combat because they had no weapons to fight with. In big infantry assaults there were large numbers of unarmed Soviet Soldiers, as there were not enough guns to go around. And for those few guns, there were even less bullets. These unarmed soldiers had no choice but to attack, if they didn't they would be killed by their own commanders.

You really think this many Soviets would have died if they fought in the western front? Not much. The point is to tell you that the Soviets were unto a greater attack, much greater. And this was the main reason so many Soviets died, Germany defeated them all the way to Stalingrad. The same amount of deaths would have been caused unless you're saying all of Soviets to go retreat to Stalingrad since the start!!! It doesn't work like that, you have to protect all of your land.

Also I'm noticing this in general, all these guys being in America side argue about how negative Soviets were. But seriously, who cares? The main topic isn't to judge countries but to state the facts about who played a larger factor. you equal American assisting with food the same as Soviets fighting with guns. Don't be ridiculous and accept it.

[AlexReal]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

They always bite the hand that feeds them.
Not to mention half those soviets killed during the war were killed by Stallin, not Germans.

Stalin has deleted million Russian, many talented military men. It is guilty that Soviet Union was not ready to war. Despite numerous messages of the Soviet scouts on forthcoming war, he declared it a misinformation. It was going to to be at war by means of a cavalry and sabres. Etc., etc. It is guilty also it obviously

[AlexReal]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

It's not the equipment that win a war. You have to have the Infantry to hold the ground once you've taken it.

Very correctly

[AlexReal]

Originally Posted by wasabijuice

I think you mean biased american media, movies, pop culture. Not people who actually study history.

Yeah, yeah, the idiot soviets saved the world from Hitler developing the bomb first. They saved us by stopping him at Stalingrad, yeah yeah. Had they not conspired with them in the beginning to cut up Poland, they wouldn't have had to sacrifice 20million for defense of the motherland. Then that good guy Stalin kills another 20 million while collectivizing his empire. Heroes? Are you kidding me? The soviet leaders brought it upon themselves and sacrificed their best and brightest because of their own stupidity, arrogance. Then their genocide in the Ukraine, on their "own" soviet people?

Yes soviet soldiers were heroic, undeniably so. But the Soviet Leadership was as hapless as Hitler with a hangover.

Badly you know history. And time you adore clever Americans - go to Hiroshima and Nagasaki

[AlexReal]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

Once again, who fed the Soviet Soldiers so they could continue fighting the Germans? It wasn't the Soviet Union. Who made the bullets that were used to shoot the Germans? It wasn't the Soviet Union. Who made the radios, telephones, batteries, and wire so the Soviet Forces could communicate? It wasn't the Soviet Union.

Ha-ha-ha. Yes, people from the Stone Age went against Hitler. Bears in bast shoes. Do not make laugh me. Was both the earphone and radio and other. Was, but it is not enough. And people in Russia, really, never regretted and did not consider - million sacrificed.

[Sangetsu]

The Russians were great believers in human wave attacks. Simply keep sending your young and poorly armed Russian soldiers against the Germans in such great numbers that the Germans use up all their bullets killing them. Horrifically enough, this bloody strategy worked. Stalin didn't care, the only thing Stalin cared about was keeping himself in power.

The poor Russian soldiers had a simple choice to make, either attack the Germans armed or unarmed, or be summarily executed by your own comrades. It makes you wonder which side was really worse, the Nazis or the Soviets. Hitler killed millions in his concentration camps, but the blood on his hands was only a fraction of that which was on Stalin's.

Last but not least, you may think that it is the soldiers who win wars, and not the supplies they need to fight, but you would be wrong. From time immemorial it has been known that it is logistics which win or lose wars. Amateurs discuss tactics, professionals discuss logistics.

Tell me iPHantom of your personal military experience. Where did you learn what you know? I learned much of what I know from my father and grandfather, both of whom served. My grandfather fought during the war, he had actually been in the Army for 10 years before the war started. As for myself, I have 8 years of active duty and reserve experience, and I attended and graduated several schools specializing in various types of warfare.

You don't have to answer, you'll just say the usual emotionally-charged nonsense typically spouted by know-nothings with strong opinions and weak sense. You'll conveniently repeat something you've read or heard from somewhere or someone else. Nothing but the sound of waves.

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

I can't really comment on the American education (because I've never had one), but I form my opinion based on the end result; the attitudes of the majority of Americans.

I'm getting the feeling that because of the power struggle played by American and Russia in the Cold War, the opinion and views of the Soviets and Stalin is very negative and there's a deep sewn hatred for communism that isn't really based on reality, just patriotic propaganda put out by American power-houses.

America is generally so self centered, and official views of China and Russia and communism in general are so negative, they're not going to take any steps to try and idolize the actions of any communists, even if it means dumbing down the truth.

No ideology in the history of mankind has caused more death, destruction, or misery than communism. You could argue that Hitler was not a communist, but you would not be completely correct, the Nazi party was a socialist party.

Say what you like about the "patriotic propaganda put out by American power-houses", they did not kill many tens of millions of innocent people in cold blood. There were no pictures, paintings, or statues of the national leader placed in every single government building, bus stop, train station, phone booth, and department store in America.

I went to elementary school and junior high school with kids who's families had fled places like the Soviet Union, Romania, and Vietnam. If you want to know how wonderful communism was, you should ask those who had to endure it.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

No ideology in the history of mankind has caused more death, destruction, or misery than communism. You could argue that Hitler was not a communist, but you would not be completely correct, the Nazi party was a socialist party.

Say what you like about the "patriotic propaganda put out by American power-houses", they did not kill many tens of millions of innocent people in cold blood. There were no pictures, paintings, or statues of the national leader placed in every single government building, bus stop, train station, phone booth, and department store in America.

I went to elementary school and junior high school with kids who's families had fled places like the Soviet Union, Romania, and Vietnam. If you want to know how wonderful communism was, you should ask those who had to endure it.

Now, does anyone not agree that my case is rested?

[AlexReal]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

No ideology in the history of mankind has caused more death, destruction, or misery than communism. You could argue that Hitler was not a communist, but you would not be completely correct, the Nazi party was a socialist party.

You confuse. In Soviet Union there was no communism. Khruschev promised to build it. That there has been builted is the distortion covered with talks about socialism. I will repeat - communism only promised. And to live in Soviet Union it was heavy. But the nazism - is more terrible

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

Tell me iPHantom of your personal military experience. Where did you learn what you know? I learned much of what I know from my father and grandfather, both of whom served. My grandfather fought during the war, he had actually been in the Army for 10 years before the war started. As for myself, I have 8 years of active duty and reserve experience, and I attended and graduated several schools specializing in various types of warfare.

You don't have to answer, you'll just say the usual emotionally-charged nonsense typically spouted by know-nothings with strong opinions and weak sense. You'll conveniently repeat something you've read or heard from somewhere or someone else. Nothing but the sound of waves.

My grandfather served for the military as well.

Also his brother (which I've talked to and I know him) served as commander of Batallion 4 of our Partisan Army. He is called Rako Gjermeni and yes to those who know me that is my last name as well, in case you doubt I'm telling the truth. You can do some google search of his name but you will find only foreign articles. this army was with the allies to bring down the already established Balli Kombëtar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia in our country and they succeded. Read that article, because Balli Kombetar was with the axis.

Anyway, I don't jump into discussions without having information. I don't like Russia, neither Stalin, but I respect for what they did during the war and I leave aside my personal hate against Stalin tactics.

Anyway, where did you serve? USA? Then it's obvious LOL.

Sorry to remind you but it's you who has been talking nonsense philosophy since the start. I give you facts, you tell me how Stalin was a devil. That is complete bullshit. Maybe you had too much of US Army bullshit fed in your mind. I guess you'd like to think of your parents as the main heroes so that's why you don't accept the truth.

Russia is the clear champion.