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09-16-2009, 05:09 AM
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However when we throw out some sort, "interesting statistic we remembered the other day, but haven't got the details other than maybe the second largest, 25% admistrative budget, the other 75% going to health care", when we aren't really explaining how this adminstrative budge is for this company is defined (as companies define their admin budgets differently depending of the nature and operations of the company)... Then compare apples to oranges (medicare to private insurance companies adminstrative budgets)... while Obama plans to partly pay for a public option "waistful spending" of these existing programs... <inhale>... I'm going to call this a tea party making comment. Thus I going to call "fact check" here... While I'm hesitant to feed into a majority of insurance companies are greedy cancelling policies left and right when the customer comes to use their policy. It may be, I don't know.. but when the president's speech two examples of two people being denied coverage aren't necessarily the case as he described them url link:: How Robin Beaton Became Exhibit A in Obama Versus the Insurers - Bloomberg.com I'm thinking... didn't someone do a fact check here, or know that someone would, so lets get a proper example? But leads me to believe we are doing what ever we can to sell this to the public. Quote:
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Yes, definitely we need some reform/regulation to private insurance companies. Like, if you insure someone, make sure BEFORE they make the policy active that the company is locked into the policy. I think its crazy for these private companies to tell some they are insured and then be able to revoke the policy for whatever reason.....i.e. once that policy is active and you are paying the premium, it stays. Its ridiculous for someone to be paying for a premium thinking they are insured then to think the company can just cancel the policy based on something they could of checked on before the policy was active. At the same time I don't expect private insurance companies to be able to compete with the public option if they can't cross state lines while being unable to deny anyone a policy that is worth anything. There are so many variables to this equation, its staggering. We would all love for what Obama and his administration are proposing to be a reality, but he is painting it so rosey for this big program and that is the ONLY option (he has made that clear its now my way or the highway) and something so dark as the problem that needs to be addressed now now now that its hard for many to take in. With past and current government spending and government program track records; I want to see something done right or some massive savings in a failing government run entity before we give the okay to take on an economy in such danger. Impliment fixing that waistful spending of medicare now...stop making people angry with the craziness we've seen recently (Cash for Clunkers, $550 million for 8 new congression jets, selective bail-outs, the post office, the country failing infrastructure such as bridges, levies etc) this list goes on. I want reform or some simple regulation that doesn't look like is going to bankrupt the country... I don't want to hear many well know economists who are almost never wrong to say "this is unsustainable"... I not getting the warm fuzzies from this. If anything though, this has made more people watch the government like a hawk, and god help the next administration if this goes through and it doesn't work. 
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09-16-2009, 05:27 AM
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Just utter confusion on how you could defend ( or make ) a statement like that.
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09-16-2009, 05:28 AM
clintjm, I won't harp on individual points, because I agree with what you are saying more than disagreeing.
Healthcare in the US is fundamentally flawed. I know it because I have seen it with my own two eyes. I know people that fly to Japan to get medical procedures done because the insurance they pay for refuses to treat them and it is cheaper to buy a plane ticket and fly to Japan to get medical help than it is to do it here. No other industrialized nation in the world has no national health plan. Are they all perfect? Far from it...but some are better than others. Regardless, what we have now stinks. It's partially because of our litigious nature, but health care are too high for the average American to pay for them. As a result we all end up paying more. SOMETHING needs to be done. I don't think the president is saying "my way or the highway"...he said the very opposite last Wednesday. But I agree killing his plan for the sake of killing it is not an option unless you have an alternative strategy. Enough of not facing the health care issue.
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09-16-2009, 06:58 AM
A quote from L'arc en ciel (History's repeating why can't we just live as one?)...or it may repeat and become worse.
 I don't care what people say anymore. Your opinions no longer matter to me. No matter what i say no one cares they just keep going. I have no enemies my opponent is my teacher. (けとだ!) (こい) (とどめだ!) I Am Shadow The Hedgehog
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09-16-2009, 04:15 PM
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“When a government is dependent upon [federal] bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes… Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” – Napoleon Bonaparte, 1815
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09-16-2009, 06:16 PM
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At the same time we will never refuse treatment at the ER no matter who you are, no matter if one can pay it our not, no matter if you just have a cut on their finger or need a $50 aspirin. "Fundamentally" though I think may be a bit strong, as the administrative will have us believe. Quote:
Lets be clear about that "Health care" isn't flawed, it health insurance and the cost of care that is high. All human beings deserve access to quality health care. Thats a faith principle. The US has that. The US is #1 in responsiveness to a medical emergency. I don't want to the US be another Canada situation. I don't want to see what the US has that does work, broken by this. The administration is at the point now where it can do real reform and regulation, but to tune out all other options besides a public option at the unsustainable cost proposed seems a bit reckless. These are all very good points to see these issues from both sides.
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09-17-2009, 04:08 AM
Break up insurance monopolies, prevent stupid law suits, done. It wasn't even that hard. We sure as hell don't need a government run system, you really can't use France or Canada as an example, the US is multiple times bigger than either of those countries. Size is the enemy here, a car needs so many feet to stop, a train needs a hell of a lot more than that and the US would be a really big train.
The other thing you need to consider is this....Darth Vader....I know it sounds dumb, but you put that much power into the hands of a few, it becomes dangerous because invaribly someone like Darth Vader ends up in charge. History shows this to be true time and time again.
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09-17-2009, 06:49 AM
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They are exactly doing things there way without input from Republicans.He's so rock solid towards a public plan that he willing to kill health care for it, then in his speech he badly snips bi-partisanship. Polls reflect this. tort reform (it's a big issue, to which they don't address at all), let health care providers compete nationwide (when you have only one or two in a single state that is a problem), insurance tax subsidy more fair, and Low-income supplemental debit card of $5,000. Republicans ARE facing the issue. Point is you don't trade a worn system for one that going to be broken. Obama Has yet to find a definitive way to pay for a public option and one of the ways that keeps popping up he criticized John McCain for considering. Obama’s Health Care Speech | FactCheck.org the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has found that Democratic plans in the House and Senate both would add hundreds of billions of dollars to the federal deficit over the coming decade. In his speech, the president reduced the price tag, saying "the plan I’m proposing will cost around $900 billion over 10 years." That’s about $100 billion less than what the CBO said the House bill would cost. And the president embraced a tax on expensive employer-paid health plans, something he’s resisted in the past. He also said there will be a provision in this plan that "requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promised don’t materialize." But it remains to be seen whether the CBO’s budget experts will agree that the plan would be fully paid for. For that, they’ll need to see more specific details. Obama: [T]hose of us with health insurance are also paying a hidden and growing tax for those without it – about $1,000 per year that pays for somebody else’s emergency room and charitable care. That figure comes from a study by Families USA estimating the effect on premiums of uncompensated care, which is care that is provided to the uninsured but not paid for. But that group advocates vigorously for wider government health coverage.The figure is not supported by the Kaiser Family Foundation or the Congressional Budget Office. Both have reported that uncompensated care actually leads to lower hospital profits, not higher premiums. KFF’s estimate of the amount of uncompensated care shifted to premium-payers works out to about $200 per family per year, not $1,000. Current Events - Rasmussen Reports /healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform Fifty-three percent (53%) say passage of the plan will make the cost of health care go up while 17% say it will make costs go down. In August, 52% thought the plan would lead to higher costs, and 17% thought it would achieve the stated goal of lowering costs. If the plan passes, 24% of voters say the quality of care will get better and 50% say it will get worse. In August, the numbers were 23% better and 50% worse. The most important fundamental is that 68% of American voters have health insurance coverage they rate good or excellent 31 Whether therefore ye eat or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God. 33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
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09-17-2009, 03:53 PM
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Do you really think that the entire population of earth was busy doing their work Professors, doctors, brain surgeons, scientists, teachers by the million and then all of a sudden one day they all woke up and said "WE ALL HATE AMERICA FOR NO RATIONAL REASON"  It's because America is responsible for so much death and destruction around the world, it is now almost impossible to calculate. REALLY ! that is the reason people hate America - for the hypocrisy which it revels in. Honestly, if i thought you were actually going to change your mind i would list WAR CRIME AFTER WAR CRIME after GENOCIDE AFTER TERRORISM that America has perpetrated, but then again whats the point? being an american would you actually care lol 
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