Pres. Obama and Nobel Peace Prize

[MMM]

Originally Posted by honoraryjapanesegirl

Eh...true...Give me some time to look them up, I have something to do first, but I'll see if I can get them to you...

Looking forward to it.

[IamKira]

Originally Posted by honoraryjapanesegirl

I agree with you...I believe race was involved...I've known it from the start, and like MMM said, I've tried to hold it, but *shakes head* I just can't any more! Yeah, I think it's great and all too that he's the first African-American President, but don't you think it's gone a little over-board?

this is what i don't understand about our system... i don't care about his race when it's the policies he's passing that matter, but his race is extremely important for america.. his election upsets 200 years of black oppression. it means that finally, we might get some black leaders... you know at the time of his election he comprised 50% of the African american's in the senate..

america has a huge racial shift concerning standard of living... and it's all due to our political system... to get elected senator you need campaign financing which comes from corporate conglomerates who use it as leverage to get bills crushed or passed by their pawns- the politicians... so the businesses control the government, but guess who controls the majority of american businesses .. white guys...

this is especially troubling concerning our insurance companies. while many African american's live in destitute poverty, they aren't going to be given good insurance policies, or any at all- but, the corporations are sure as hell going to make sure the manufacturing jobs go overseas to the places where they can get basically slave labour..
thus, the only sector left for poor people in america is to work in the service industry.. fast food etc. but business can't afford to pay out more than it takes in, so there's no way anyone who's living under these conditions in the ghettos can possibly rise up and allow themselves or their good schooling which would have to be paid for due to americas terrible school system

and without schooling, there is no possibility for someone to become a senator... thus the vicious cycle.

this is why it's so important that america has broken the racial bridle concerning the presidency.

there's actually a very good movie which i'd recommend called Bulworth..... it depicts the issues spot

[honoraryjapanesegirl]

I'm not saying it's bad that we have an African American president. What I mean is...I think that there was possible unfairness in the election, and that race had something to do with it. I think it's cool we have an African American president, it just depends on what you do with that. It has a strong influence on The People when you have someone of a new race and such in the Presidential Election, so how you use that influence is vital. I think he used it badly. Like I said, I think that there was something else going on in the election.
I mean, we (America) could've wound up like Iran when something went wrong in the election, I just thank God we didn't!

[IamKira]

this is another thing i get furious with... I have had too many encounters with republican individuals who say that "Obama only won because all the black people voted for him"....
sure it's easy enough to say that, but then you tend to forget that there were probably equal numbers of racist white republican's who voted for McCain simply because he was white.

and i wouldn't bother trying to refute it otherwise i will link you to a video of one of his rallies in which his supporters chanted "kill him" among other things
or countless shameless interviews in which his supporters made anti-black remarks

anyway, got what i needed to say out of the way,... not looking to stir up a debate...please, if you do argue this make it sophisticated and calm eh?

[Ryzorian]

Honestly, most American's could prolly care less about the Olympics, wich can be dreadfully boreing at times. I mean really, it isn't the Superbowl here.

The Health care thing wouldn't be in the mess it is now if Government simply did the job it was supposed to do anyway, make sure you didn't have monopolies dominate things, and simplify tort reform. In fact, that's what they should still do, national health care as a government run idea is not only outragous, but down right unconstitutional.

I have read various parts of these bills and they are so convaluted they could mean pretty much anything.

Besides, I have one name to stop anyone thinking about Government run health care...Brown. Surely everyone remembers Katrina and "Your doing a heck of a good job Brownie Boy"? Does anyone honestly think a program that would run a 6th of the national economy wouldn't eventually end up with some croonie like Brown in charge of it? If you build it, croonies will come...

[MMM]

Originally Posted by honoraryjapanesegirl

What I mean is...I think that there was possible unfairness in the election, and that race had something to do with it.

Really? What are you saying?

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

I have read various parts of these bills and they are so convaluted they could mean pretty much anything.

The newest one? The newest one may not even be posted for 72 hours for the public. Let alone there isn't enough for the people that need to read it to read it and vote.

It still scares and angers me.

This is not what I expect from a nobel peace prize winner.

government at its best:

Link:
A new idea for Congress: Read the bill, then vote -- baltimoresun.com

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by IamKira

this is what i don't understand about our system... i don't care about his race when it's the policies he's passing that matter, but his race is extremely important for america.. his election upsets 200 years of black oppression. it means that finally, we might get some black leaders... you know at the time of his election he comprised 50% of the African american's in the senate..

america has a huge racial shift concerning standard of living... and it's all due to our political system... to get elected senator you need campaign financing which comes from corporate conglomerates who use it as leverage to get bills crushed or passed by their pawns- the politicians... so the businesses control the government, but guess who controls the majority of american businesses .. white guys...

this is especially troubling concerning our insurance companies. while many African american's live in destitute poverty, they aren't going to be given good insurance policies, or any at all- but, the corporations are sure as hell going to make sure the manufacturing jobs go overseas to the places where they can get basically slave labour..
thus, the only sector left for poor people in america is to work in the service industry.. fast food etc. but business can't afford to pay out more than it takes in, so there's no way anyone who's living under these conditions in the ghettos can possibly rise up and allow themselves or their good schooling which would have to be paid for due to americas terrible school system

and without schooling, there is no possibility for someone to become a senator... thus the vicious cycle.

this is why it's so important that america has broken the racial bridle concerning the presidency.

there's actually a very good movie which i'd recommend called Bulworth..... it depicts the issues spot

Too many people complain that the "system" opposes them as an excuse. Life is only as difficult as you allow it to be. Drop-out rates among minority high schools are above 50%, but students aren't "oppressed" into quitting. They quit because their parents don't care, not because someone forces them to leave school. Then when they grow up and find they can't get a job doing anything but flipping burgers or washing cars, they then say that "the system failed me".

Obama's father failed him. Fortunately he had a mother and grandmother who didn't. For those who don't know, Obama's grandmother (the white one) was an executive with at a bank (part of corporate America, where hard work and education are highly valued). Obama's grandmother paid for his private education, and set him on the path for success. Were it not for her caring about him and his education, Obama himself might have been a burger flipper or car washer.

People can only be oppressed if they allow themselves to be.

It is not the government's job to take care of people, but to create an environment where people can take care of themselves. People who are always taken care of lose the ability to take care of themselves.

Socialists have never been able to grasp that concept. They feel that it is the responsibility of the state to take care of people, and that all of a state's wealth should be spread around for everyone to use equally. The only problem with that idea is human beings aren't like farm animals or parts of a machine. Human beings find pleasure in creativity, work, and success. When the ability to do these things is taken away, they become unhappy or miserable, and don't bother to work hard. Why bother? Anything you make will get taken away and given to someone else. And even in socialist systems, they aren't truly socialist, there is always the ruling elite, who get to exercise their innate needs to create, work, and be successful.

When America was created, it was a most unusual experiment. People nowadays can't grasp the mentality of the men who wrote the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The beliefs and virtues of the founders of America are pretty much forgotten now.

All of you have probably heard about the "Pilgrims" who arrived in America in the Early 17th century. The pilgrims were actually "Puritans", who fled the corruption and political strife in England to live lives of freedom in the New World. The Puritan spirit came into existence during the time of Queen Elizabeth, and reached it's peak during the Commonwealth period (after King Charles was executed, and Cromwell and the Parliament ran the country). When the monarchy was restored, Puritans were persecuted as enemies of the king and the Church of England.

Most people think of Puritans as religious fundamentalists, but that is not entirely true. Puritans were believers of "salvation through grace". That is, getting to heaven by living honest, virtuous lives. They were not followers or believers of organized religion. They believed in ultimate freedom, that those who lived properly, honestly, and with virtue had no need for organized religion or government.

This Puritan spirit was still alive and well when the founding fathers of America were around, and this spirit was used in the formation of the government. America was a "free country", a level playing field where all could work hard and succeed.

But, even in a free country, those who don't work hard will not succeed.

[IamKira]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

It is not the government's job to take care of people, but to create an environment where people can take care of themselves. People who are always taken care of lose the ability to take care of themselves.

All of you have probably heard about the "Pilgrims" who arrived in America in the Early 17th century. The pilgrims were actually "Puritans", who fled the corruption and political strife in England to live lives of freedom in the New World. The Puritan spirit came into existence during the time of Queen Elizabeth, and reached it's peak during the Commonwealth period (after King Charles was executed, and Cromwell and the Parliament ran the country). When the monarchy was restored, Puritans were persecuted as enemies of the king and the Church of England.

Most people think of Puritans as religious fundamentalists, but that is not entirely true. Puritans were believers of "salvation through grace". That is, getting to heaven by living honest, virtuous lives. They were not followers or believers of organized religion. They believed in ultimate freedom, that those who lived properly, honestly, and with virtue had no need for organized religion or government.

wow.. where to begin... first off, people group together to form a system of governance for the sole purpose of creating an environment in which everyone does a part to support the group and thus they are supported through eachother's actions.. so it is the sole job of government to make sure it's people are protected and given the best opportunities

second, the puritans were the biggest hypocrites in the world.. they came to the new land to escape oppression and immediately set about their conquest of the "lesser advanced" natives... raped the women and pillaged the land and stole whatever they could...america likes to believe it's a good, righteous country build on good values by good people... you sir have been fooled... group mentality at work there.

"The first thing the pilgrims did when they came to the new world was eat a few indians." -Denny Crane

[samurai007]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

Too many people complain that the "system" opposes them as an excuse. Life is only as difficult as you allow it to be. Drop-out rates among minority high schools are above 50%, but students aren't "oppressed" into quitting. They quit because their parents don't care, not because someone forces them to leave school. Then when they grow up and find they can't get a job doing anything but flipping burgers or washing cars, they then say that "the system failed me".

Obama's father failed him. Fortunately he had a mother and grandmother who didn't. For those who don't know, Obama's grandmother (the white one) was an executive with at a bank (part of corporate America, where hard work and education are highly valued). Obama's grandmother paid for his private education, and set him on the path for success. Were it not for her caring about him and his education, Obama himself might have been a burger flipper or car washer.

People can only be oppressed if they allow themselves to be.

It is not the government's job to take care of people, but to create an environment where people can take care of themselves. People who are always taken care of lose the ability to take care of themselves.

Socialists have never been able to grasp that concept. They feel that it is the responsibility of the state to take care of people, and that all of a state's wealth should be spread around for everyone to use equally. The only problem with that idea is human beings aren't like farm animals or parts of a machine. Human beings find pleasure in creativity, work, and success. When the ability to do these things is taken away, they become unhappy or miserable, and don't bother to work hard. Why bother? Anything you make will get taken away and given to someone else. And even in socialist systems, they aren't truly socialist, there is always the ruling elite, who get to exercise their innate needs to create, work, and be successful.

When America was created, it was a most unusual experiment. People nowadays can't grasp the mentality of the men who wrote the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The beliefs and virtues of the founders of America are pretty much forgotten now.

All of you have probably heard about the "Pilgrims" who arrived in America in the Early 17th century. The pilgrims were actually "Puritans", who fled the corruption and political strife in England to live lives of freedom in the New World. The Puritan spirit came into existence during the time of Queen Elizabeth, and reached it's peak during the Commonwealth period (after King Charles was executed, and Cromwell and the Parliament ran the country). When the monarchy was restored, Puritans were persecuted as enemies of the king and the Church of England.

Most people think of Puritans as religious fundamentalists, but that is not entirely true. Puritans were believers of "salvation through grace". That is, getting to heaven by living honest, virtuous lives. They were not followers or believers of organized religion. They believed in ultimate freedom, that those who lived properly, honestly, and with virtue had no need for organized religion or government.

This Puritan spirit was still alive and well when the founding fathers of America were around, and this spirit was used in the formation of the government. America was a "free country", a level playing field where all could work hard and succeed.

But, even in a free country, those who don't work hard will not succeed.

Very well said. Here are a couple of videos that I nearly posted before, but they tie in to what you're talking about.

YouTube - Klavan on culture

YouTube - Klavan on the Culture: Night of the Living Government

YouTube - Klavan On The Culture