Pres. Obama and Nobel Peace Prize

[Megabyte117]

"To arrive at a just estimate of a renowned man's character one must judge it by the standards of his time, not ours." - Mark Twain

Just saying.

OT: Not angry at Obama, but I don't believe any of his actions have warranted the Nobel Peace Prize.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Megabyte117

"To arrive at a just estimate of a renowned man's character one must judge it by the standards of his time, not ours." - Mark Twain

It's a good quote to ponder.

Originally Posted by Megabyte117

OT: Not angry at Obama, but I don't believe any of his actions have warranted the Nobel Peace Prize.

Neither did the selection committee.

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by Voyager

All excellent points made about Washington. It's ridiculous historical figures like him get a pass when it comes to atrocities like slave ownership.

Yeah I'm a guy

Although I'm 22 and your profile says your 85 so there may be issue there..but who knows love knows no boundaries I always say

The world is a different place now than it was a few centuries ago. "Slavery" at that time wasn't as nasty a word as it is now. People had "owned" other people long before colonial America, and it wasn't just blacks that were the victims.

During the early history in America, there were actually very few "freemen". Even many white settlers were "indentured servants", who had to work a number of years on a farm or in a household before they could become free. They could not marry or have children without permission. In Europe, "serfs" (at one time a large class of society) belonged to the lands they worked, and were not permitted to leave. They and the land they worked were owned by someone else.

No one at the time would be so crazy as to say that slavery was a wonderful thing, but few would have called it an atrocity. Washington and Jefferson were both land owners, and slaves worked on their farms.

Times have changed since then, and we have learned a lot, but we have also forgotten a lot as well.

[Ryzorian]

It's obvious that American schools have failed, considering how ignorant some folks seem to be reguarding the history of thier own nation. Washington and the founding fathers were some of the best people this country ever produced. The freedoms you enjoy today are because of them, and the blood, sweat and tears they shed. The constitution and the bill of rights that protect you, was written by those men you despise so much.

Is the US perfect? No, of course not, but it can improve. Afterall, it's the great experiment. Has it made mistakes in the past? Yes, no country is perfect in that reguard. Still, it atempts to correct those mistakes as best it can, no other country does that. Some folks nationalistic self hate is misguided.

[samurai007]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

It's obvious that American schools have failed, considering how ignorant some folks seem to be reguarding the history of thier own nation. Washington and the founding fathers were some of the best people this country ever produced. The freedoms you enjoy today are because of them, and the blood, sweat and tears they shed. The constitution and the bill of rights that protect you, was written by those men you despise so much.

Is the US perfect? No, of course not, but it can improve. Afterall, it's the great experiment. Has it made mistakes in the past? Yes, no country is perfect in that reguard. Still, it atempts to correct those mistakes as best it can, no other country does that. Some folks nationalistic self hate is misguided.

If the goal of today's schools were to indoctrinate students with a contempt for America, capitalism, and liberty, and to brainwash them with socialism, self-doubt, and an obeisance to group-identity victimization and identity politics, then I wouldn't say they've failed at all. The left has taken over our schools, from Kindergarten all the way through university, and they use their positions to inculcate their ideologies into impressionable minds...

[MMM]

Originally Posted by samurai007

If the goal of today's schools were to indoctrinate students with a contempt for America, capitalism, and liberty, and to brainwash them with socialism, self-doubt, and an obeisance to group-identity victimization and identity politics, then I wouldn't say they've failed at all. The left has taken over our schools, from Kindergarten all the way through university, and they use their positions to inculcate their ideologies into impressionable minds...

As a former teacher and administrator at an American high school I would say I cannot remember reading a statement about politics and America schools that was more entrenched in paranoid bombastic fantasy than this statement here.

You are obviously a smart individual samurai, which is why I enjoy our discussion, even if we come from different ends of the political spectrum, but please. That's all I can say.

[samurai007]

Originally Posted by MMM

As a former teacher and administrator at an American high school I would say I cannot remember reading a statement about politics and America schools that was more entrenched in paranoid bombastic fantasy than this statement here.

You are obviously a smart individual samurai, which is why I enjoy our discussion, even if we come from different ends of the political spectrum, but please. That's all I can say.

MMM, every school is different, but I've seen some of this first hand. My degree is in History/Soc Science teaching. During my senior year, one of my professors was fired for no apparent reason. I checked in to it, talked to several professors that I'd known for years, and found out it was all political. I had some long and very frank discussions with several professors that year, and even with some of my old high school teachers, and found out about a lot about the behind-the-scenes blacklisting of conservative teachers, the pressure upon them, the harassment, etc. Those discussions were a major reason why I did not go on and get my teaching credential... I knew that my kind was not wanted in academia, and in fact was forcibly run out if they dared show up, as happened to that prof that was fired (I was lucky enough to have his class, and he was an excellent teacher, very apolitical in class, but accidentally opened his mouth outside of class and lost his job over it).

In contrast, I knew and had classes with some repulsively left-wing professors and students, some of whom indoctrinated my own brother, who to this day is still a leftist who believes all kinds of crazy things, such as Bush was behind 9/11. Before university, he was center-right. After university, he was hard left, and I even saw which classes and professors were mostly responsible. Those same leftist counter-culture types got him into drugs and drinking, which he is still struggling with today, 15 years later.

Finally, I do recruiting for JET at the university each year, so I see what is still going on there somewhat. You should have seen it last year, when I attended the career fair there during the elections... the radicals were out in full force.

But beyond my own experiences, you should read some of the books on the subject...

Amazon.com: Indoctrination U:The Left's War Against Academic Freedom (9781594031908): David Horowitz: Books
Amazon.com: One-Party Classroom: How Radical Professors at America's Top Colleges Indoctrinate Students and Undermine Our Democracy (9780307452559): David Horowitz, Jacob Laksin: Books

PS: I bet many of the kids in this thread got at least some of their anti-American views from their teachers... Guys, am I right?

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

It's obvious that American schools have failed, considering how ignorant some folks seem to be reguarding the history of thier own nation. Washington and the founding fathers were some of the best people this country ever produced. The freedoms you enjoy today are because of them, and the blood, sweat and tears they shed. The constitution and the bill of rights that protect you, was written by those men you despise so much.

Is the US perfect? No, of course not, but it can improve. Afterall, it's the great experiment. Has it made mistakes in the past? Yes, no country is perfect in that reguard. Still, it atempts to correct those mistakes as best it can, no other country does that. Some folks nationalistic self hate is misguided.

To be honest, I think it's statements like the one in Bold is the big problem! The rest of your post seems reasonable, but a tiny little sentence like that makes everything you said; invalid!

Personally, I don't know what the educational system is like in the US, but last year, I had to help out 2 Americans that came to France for an exchange. One was from Texas and the other somewhere in the centre of the US. I was pretty shocked at how bad they were doing in their Math and Chemistry classes in their first year of the Bachelors degree, yet they told me they had very good grades back home. I had to help them for about a month to catch up to the French standard. Luckily they were very intelligent, otherwise it would have taken much longer.

So, I don't know what they learnt in America, but when it came to classical Sciences, they sucked!

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by noodle

To be honest, I think it's statements like the one in Bold is the big problem! The rest of your post seems reasonable, but a tiny little sentence like that makes everything you said; invalid!

Personally, I don't know what the educational system is like in the US, but last year, I had to help out 2 Americans that came to France for an exchange. One was from Texas and the other somewhere in the centre of the US. I was pretty shocked at how bad they were doing in their Math and Chemistry classes in their first year of the Bachelors degree, yet they told me they had very good grades back home. I had to help them for about a month to catch up to the French standard. Luckily they were very intelligent, otherwise it would have taken much longer.

So, I don't know what they learnt in America, but when it came to classical Sciences, they sucked!

unfortunately this is becoming more and more standard. The American educational system along with many other areas needs to be revamp badly. I dont know what happen but the kids i see today do not learn nearly as much as my generation or the ones before mine did. American kids are falling behind many other industrialized countries in two important categories Math and Science. Also, the drop out rate has started to climb and the amount of patents issued has declined. Its very worrisome that people arent even being creative anymore.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

It's obvious that American schools have failed, considering how ignorant some folks seem to be reguarding the history of thier own nation. Washington and the founding fathers were some of the best people this country ever produced. The freedoms you enjoy today are because of them, and the blood, sweat and tears they shed. The constitution and the bill of rights that protect you, was written by those men you despise so much.

Is the US perfect? No, of course not, but it can improve. Afterall, it's the great experiment. Has it made mistakes in the past? Yes, no country is perfect in that reguard. Still, it atempts to correct those mistakes as best it can, no other country does that. Some folks nationalistic self hate is misguided.

A perfect example is people like Anita Dunn telling high school students her love for Mao Tse Tung. The speech was done to a High School audience. This just broke yesterday. Perfect example of what you are talking about.

Link:

YouTube - WH Spokeswoman Anita Dunn: 'Mao Tse Tung is My Favorite Political Philosopher'