Japan, Seeking Trim Waists, Measures Millions

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I`m incredibly curious what makes you think Japan is any different.
Do you REALLY think that people actually USE those national holidays or those paid days off? Excuse me while I take a break to laugh...
No one I know in the US works as much as pretty much everyone I know over here. We`re considered amazing and my husband in a cushy job because he actually usually gets to have Saturday AND Sunday off when things aren`t busy. Most companies don`t get Saturday off - or rather, they get it off but still go to work because you know, you want to keep that job. I`d say around half go in voluntarily (without pay) on Sunday too...
Take a national holiday off instead of coming in to work voluntarily that day? Be prepared to stay the night a couple days afterward to make up for the lost time. Saved up 40 or 50 days of paid leave days is completely normal. Save up too many and you might get an offer from your employer to get a few days with overtime pay to make it LOOK like you`ve used them so that they don`t get in trouble with the government.

Guaranteed in NO WAY means what you are thinking it does. The government SAYS you need to provide those days off - but reality says that almost no one uses them, or if they do they`ll have hell to pay afterward. Volunteer work, and "paper holidays" (overtime paid in exchange for filling out a form saying you used a sick day or holiday) do not show up on charts as days worked.

Thank you. My experience is almost exactly the same. I know many guys that work in offices in Japan that get frustrated that their secretaries take two or three weeks off a year, but they cannot use their paid holidays. Ever. (Well, maybe they can after 15 or 20 years with the company).

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by clintjm

In my company they do because their offices are closed.
My realitives are off as well.
You must know a lot of people. I'm glad you can speak for the nation.
Japan and the US are almost at equal in hours per week.

And my relatives` company has zero days off a year - they even go in for half a day on New Years.
Of course I don`t speak for a whole country, but neither do you. REPORTED days off are different than ACTUAL days off.

Well if you are salaried you've already sold your soul to the company and there is no "overtime". So the without pay thing is mute.

I would LOVE to know how this misconception pops up all the time.
You are salaried for 8 hours work a day and a 1 hour break for every workday in a month. You will get the same base salary regardless of the number of work days in each month. Depending on the company, some include Saturday as a work day, some do not.
Anything beyond that is overtime, and by law you are required to be paid overtime pay. Being salaried has nothing to do with whether you receive overtime. Do companies try to get around this by offering other things instead of overtime pay? Yes. Do companies illegally ask people to work without paying them overtime? Yes. But those are illegal practices and can be reported.

I guess that is why travel is so pleasant on Golden week because everyone isn't off. I suppose it depends on what the job is.... I mean if stuff is closed, stuff is closed and little can be done from coming in to work. It all depends on what we are talking about... I mean transportation industry and mass retail never sleeps....

This is sort of like saying that no one is off on Christmas in the US. Of course there are going to be holidays the majority of people DO take off - that doesn`t reflect on the whole of days taken off over a whole year.

Look I'm just going with stats... working for an international company as a comparison, relatives, friends, having worked and studied there myself. There are plenty of Japanese and American reports on this. Frankly neither of which make Japan or the U.S. the happiest country on the planet. I'm saying the Japanese system continues to work hard as the U.S. does, but if you look at it... the U.S. is coming apart at the seams with no guarenteed vacation and 5-6 days of national holidays.

I think what I am trying to point out is that stats alone do not reflect reality. The government can say that a company HAS to provide so many days off a year and put a law in place saying this, with fines for companies that do not follow it and tax breaks for companies that do. When the government goes around to the tops of companies with a survey asking them how many days off they gave their workers that year - with all the reporting being in-company... How many places do you think are going to say they didn`t give everyone all the days? And this is the info being used to form charts...

[YukisUke]

Originally Posted by clintjm

Under a national law that came into effect two months ago, companies and local governments must now measure the waistlines of Japanese people between the ages of 40 and 74 as part of their annual checkups. That represents more than 56 million waistlines, or about 44 percent of the entire population.

To reach its goals of shrinking the overweight population by 10 percent over the next four years and 25 percent over the next seven years, the government will impose financial penalties on companies and local governments that fail to meet specific targets. The country’s Ministry of Health argues that the campaign will keep the spread of diseases like diabetes and strokes in check.

Should something like this be initiated in Japan and other places of the world, say the US? Why or why not?

Do you think it could happen in the States?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/world/asia/13fat.html

I think something like this should happen around the world because its not just Japan and the United States that have obesity and diabetic problems. It would be good to know where your waistline should be at instead of being in the dark.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by YukisUke

I think something like this should happen around the world because its not just Japan and the United States that have obesity and diabetic problems. It would be good to know where your waistline should be at instead of being in the dark.

I would say that the the obesity and waistline problems in America are much more extreme than those in Japan, which means if Japan feels there is a problem going on (which there is) then the US should REALLY open its eyes.

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by clintjm

All good points.
Most Japanese HAVE to walk or bike a good distance to get to mass transportation... then walk or bike to their place of work on the other side. Repeat for the commute home. Its something you simply HAVE to do. When you have to do it, it is not the same as the US in to putting the time into going to gym or doing some exercises in the living area before you go sit in the car to drive right up to the place of work to go sit the whole day, then drive back home mentally exhausted from sitting in traffic.

This is so true on the Japanese junk food (or drink options) side.... I don't know how they do it. Try to find an Angel Cream like donut in America that tastes as good and isn't the same calorie content. American pastries and cakes always have that artificial sugar after taste ... like american supermarket sheet-cakes or cupcakes...

Interesting trivia... Mr. Donuts used to be an American franchise... if only... if only...
I'm sure its all down to the ingredients the country uses...

I did find I cycled a lot there. I mean, I live in an area with good cycle links, just as many hills and I have a decent bike but... I hardly use it. I guess it's a mentality thing. In oxford city everyone cycles, the drivers are more aware of cyclists and moreover there's more secure places to leave your bike, so the whole deal is just more convenient. Having come from Oxford, actually, (where a very stout bike chain is the minimum guarantee that at least most of your bike will still be there when you come back), the biddly little locks on bikes astounded me in Japan. Also; bike licenses! Darn good idea! Definitely makes them harder to steal if they come with a pair of info tags that are required by law.

One thing I heard about donuts, as it happens (and I can't validate this in any way) was that Dunkin' Donuts tried to launch in Japan and failed because people found the sweets too sickly. Frankly I'm not entirely surprised, i've tried american candy and I haven't liked much of it (except reeses peanut butter cups). Chocolate especially, seems really grainy with too much sugar and not enough cocoa.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by MMM

Overweight families like to claim their size as a genetic disposition, but I don't think there is a lot of evidence to support that.

I think it is, in my case. Seriously, the majority of my family is overweight (father's side). They're New Yorkers. Didn't drive everyplace, walked everywhere, all that stuff. I became overweight as a child unexpectedly. My parents didn't hang out at fast food places or anything and I played like a normal child. I think I was just prone to weight gain.

I knew a family that was of that mind-set when I was in high school. I would visit them for dinner and eat 1/4 to 1/3 of the amount of food each member of the family ate (they were all overweight). "How can you not be full?" they would ask after I consumed 2 tacos to their 6 each. That isn't genetics, but lifestyle patterns.

Two tacos? I can eat about four, unless I've prepared a real meal. Maybe one or two tacos and a salad or something. Tacos are light (not referring to fat).

Obesity has skyrocketed in the US in the last 50 years, but we still had the same genes we did in 1950s. Evolution 1) doesn't work that fast and 2) doesn't work to kill a species. As Nyororin said, you can argue that some people might have slower metabolisms, but it is the food they put in their bodies that makes them fat, not their genes.

I consider it to be a combination, but of course, it depends on the person. As I mentioned, I ate normal at home, as my mother was semi health conscious. Fast food and restaurant stuff in general was a rarity for me growing up, but, I did buy snacks in school because I rarely got them at home. I didn't eat no more or less than the average kid and I was active. I still put on 50lbs at the age of 8 for no reason at all, but, we know what the cause is now after all these years. In my case, it was a combination of things.

And that is great that your father lost 80 pounds. He is proof it can be done.

He lost the weight because of his diabetes. I don't find that very miraculous, imo, and it would've been nice if he'd loss it under normal circumstances, but I am glad he did lose ihs weight. Weight loss is normal for diabetics. He didn't lose it through diet and exercise (as his eating habits didn't really change, and to be honest, he never really ate all that bad to begin with; this is the man who wouldn't even buy me a piece of candy at the check out line at the store as a kid). I'm diabetic (genetic). Got it from him (his mother had it and died from it). My mother doesn't have diabetes (but her sister does), which she inherited from her mother and father. My grandmother got it in her older age, and my grandfather died in his 30s from it (just didn't know what it was back in the 60s). For the most part, they were of normal weight.

I've lost weight since I became diabetic. Still trying to lose more though, but it's going soooooo slowly and it is because of the metabolism and thyroid thing (this is the medical thing I mentioned earlier; found all this out right before I lost my insurance). Been having this problem since I was a kid.

I am not sure why schools shouldn't teach something that is already part of the curriculum, but it is hypocrisy to teach healthy eating habits, especially at such a vital age, and then line the hallways with machines serving the snacks that the curriculum says should be avoided.

To be honest, I don't even think they do that anymore...have snack machines. I was at my former middle school last year as a teaching assistant. My lunch in middle school usually consisted of chips, juice, and a honey bun due to the fact that I rarely had time to eat, even when I used to pack my own lunch. It'd still end up sitting all day due to lack of time. I never finished it, so it was easier, and faster, to have snacks. It wasn't from the vending machine, they had it on the lunch line to buy. High school had the vending machines. I drank a lot of juice. Didn't realize how much sugar were in juices, until looking back as an adult.

Anyway, the snacks at the middle school now are all baked or low fat.

Elementary school was perfect lunch wise, though as far as healthy choices. We always had a main dish, a veggie/fruit, a carb, and a milk (since all my family drank was skim at home, I drank skim in school). Not sure why middle and high school had all the problems. High school, we had choices between Dominoes, Chick-a-filet, Subways, and Taco Bell. Subways came later, so I started eating the sandwiches everyday and quit with the Taco Bell, but I still drank a lot of juice.

As for the teaching thing. I guess I worded that wrong. What I meant was, why should they teach something that's already taught? In other words, as far as I know, it was never dropped from the curriculum for them to have to put it back in to reteach it.

[Slykaz1]

Originally Posted by clintjm

...the government will impose financial penalties on companies and local governments that fail to meet specific targets.

Should something like this be initiated in Japan and other places of the world, say the US? Why or why not?

Do you think it could happen in the States?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/world/asia/13fat.html

I ask myself...does this mean that the government will be willing to help those companies help their "employees" loose the weight to be within that "specified range". And if so...those "employees" that can't seem to loose the weight after getting the necessary help, like dieting, excercise, healthy eating, you know those factors. Are they gonna be "fired" because they can't loose the weight? I mean if the company and government is willing to pay for the medical process for liposuccion and rewarding the mental breakthrough it takes to go through the procedure...than kudos to them.

But if the help isn't there, than damn I send my senscere apologies to those whom will struggle to loose the weight.

As for weight loss in the U.S. it is an option. What I do know is if you go through the medical procedure you can put that cost in your tax refund... tho I don't know how much that helps. There are also some companies here that offer free gym privledges to their employees as well as nutritionists to help guide them to better eating. But it is the will of the employee to use it.

But if it does become a law.....hahaha....than gosh...I might find a job faster.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

And my relatives` company has zero days off a year - they even go in for half a day on New Years.
Of course I don`t speak for a whole country, but neither do you. REPORTED days off are different than ACTUAL days off.

I'm just going by the report I posted... like I said: Averages.
Okay fine fine... the people you speak of have no time off...
Japan is no-vacation nation too.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I would LOVE to know how this misconception pops up all the time.
You are salaried for 8 hours work a day and a 1 hour break for every workday in a month. You will get the same base salary regardless of the number of work days in each month. Depending on the company, some include Saturday as a work day, some do not.

Anything beyond that is overtime, and by law you are required to be paid overtime pay. Being salaried has nothing to do with whether you receive overtime.

Yes.. perhaps I didn't spell this out completely... In the states its different from state to state and different company to company... but the general rule is you have to work so many hours of overtime * consistently in a time period * to start being paid overtime. 50-60 hours week as a salaried employee without overtime is the norm for most companies unless it violates the state law...

i.e. if I worked five 10,10,8,10,8 hour weekdays and work two 5 hour days on the weekend, a total of 56 hours, I wouldn't be paid overtime because the overtime can only be paid out if the overtime is consistant over three days.... i.e. 10,10,10 companies do have insane laws just enough not to violate the state or prefecture law.

But I think we both agree in these posts, even though a company has to pay overtime, they will keep you away from reaching the point when overtime pays out.

Also the norm today isn't the 8 hour day anymore in the states, its usually 9 hour minus your 1 hour break to make sure you get the 8 hours in. Again depends on the job and the company I'm sure.

Again though to work that many hours back to back to reach that overtime threshhold is uncommon because right before you reach it, the company will scold you for working even though they are the ones requesting you to.

In any case your soul is the property of the company basically. Myself, I don't care for overtime... I rather be less rich and have more free time...
The comp time thing never really works... kinda of like the overtime... looked down upon.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Do companies try to get around this by offering other things instead of overtime pay? Yes. Do companies illegally ask people to work without paying them overtime? Yes. But those are illegal practices and can be reported.

Nice and clean cut right to report those... huh..

Originally Posted by Nyororin

This is sort of like saying that no one is off on Christmas in the US. Of course there are going to be holidays the majority of people DO take off - that doesn`t reflect on the whole of days taken off over a whole year.

I think we agree more than we disagree... my point was the US has caught up to Japan in regards to hours worked, but at the same time they simply have more national holidays. Yes every company is different. In my case an American company that is doing business internationally

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I think what I am trying to point out is that stats alone do not reflect reality. The government can say that a company HAS to provide so many days off a year and put a law in place saying this, with fines for companies that do not follow it and tax breaks for companies that do. When the government goes around to the tops of companies with a survey asking them how many days off they gave their workers that year - with all the reporting being in-company... How many places do you think are going to say they didn`t give everyone all the days? And this is the info being used to form charts...

Yes these stats from the report on vacation of countries don't fit everyone perfectly. Thats why they write *average*. In my company's case, like the average, Japan and every other country we are in have more days off from vacation and required national holidays than its native country (the US).

I just wanted to propose that a no-vacation and 50-60 hour week catches up in different ways in conjunction with the society and culture of each country. In the US case I think it plays a role in the waist size. How big of a role... no one really knows.

Does anyone know the current ratio of two income families with kids with the US and Japan? I know more two income families are growing in Japan everyday, but I know it hasn't caught up to the US. Two income familes with kids surely has some affect on waist size.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by Slykaz1

I ask myself...does this mean that the government will be willing to help those companies help their "employees" loose the weight to be within that "specified range". And if so...those "employees" that can't seem to loose the weight after getting the necessary help, like dieting, excercise, healthy eating, you know those factors. Are they gonna be "fired" because they can't loose the weight? I mean if the company and government is willing to pay for the medical process for liposuccion and rewarding the mental breakthrough it takes to go through the procedure...than kudos to them.

But if the help isn't there, than damn I send my senscere apologies to those whom will struggle to loose the weight.

As for weight loss in the U.S. it is an option. What I do know is if you go through the medical procedure you can put that cost in your tax refund... tho I don't know how much that helps. There are also some companies here that offer free gym privledges to their employees as well as nutritionists to help guide them to better eating. But it is the will of the employee to use it.

But if it does become a law.....hahaha....than gosh...I might find a job faster.

I worked for a place that gave the gym, nutritionists etc to help them.. also voluntary.

Maybe it depends if the company will be on the new Pelosi health care.
Apparently the American government feels (in HR 3962 SEC. 2535 - the House Health care bill) that losing weight or eating better, no smoking and no drinking, deserve grants and contracts. If we have all this control, our government will reward / punish these entities or individuals based our individual decisions or the hand delt to specific.

Actually you are right... maybe the fitter bunch will have a hand up in the job market... never thought that far out...

[Slykaz1]

Originally Posted by clintjm

Two income familes with kids surely has some affect on waist size.

Not entirely true. We have two incomes in our home...and well my kids ....which I will tell you are really close in age. The oldest has a waist that fits size 28 pants...and is 14 and the younger is of a fit size 36 pants, he's 13. Income has no influence on weight.

When I was growing up...I happened to have the smaller waist and my sis the larger waist....and we were of two incomes.

Weird thing is that 14 year old can eat a lot and not gain any of the weight. And the younger can eat a lot, but he gains the weight. In which I've done my best to control his eating. And they don't indulge on "junk food". Heck. I still have a basket full of last years Halloween candy.