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11-16-2009, 05:34 AM
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If TV, pornography, video games, Internet, tea or any of the other things you talked about were proven direct contributing factors to America's increasing obesity and unhealthiness, and was contributing to increased health costs for all Americans, then I would say yes, let's tax them to to balance the problem. Your argument about insurance would work if everyone was insured. The fact is the worst offenders don't even have insurance, and don't pay a dime for the 10s and 100s of thousands of dollars spent on them in health care individually every year. They use the emergency room, and don't pay the bills. So then the hospital jacks up the prices so a trip to the ER starts at $300 for walking in the door. (Add another $750 if you took an ambulance there.) The insurance companies are now paying for the people that don't pay bills, so what do they do? Increase insurance rates every year. What is the result? Fewer people can afford health insurance. People drop out of programs, so what happens? Rates go up. 20% a year in some programs. Every year. Much higher than inflation, and much higher than raises or cost of living. How long do we want this downward spiral to continue? 
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11-16-2009, 05:52 AM
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Most people rarely can tell you what they spend a day on food. So obviously they aren't caring about the price now. The people on a true poor man's budget is already bringing their lunch and not buying fast food. Its not a matter of price... Its a matter of a. Self control... they know that choclate cake isn't as good for you as the fruit cup. b. Laziness... taking convience over a healthy choice. c. If real food isn't available then goto the grocery store, prepare health meals and take them with you. Raw ingredients are not more expensive than junk. Lets say goverment decides to put a tax on meat. They say too much red meat is bad for... so you are now paying more for meat... Even Al Gore say methane from cattle is destroying our planet but is not willing to give up eating red meat. too much mercury in tuna... tax it... too much fat in bacon... tax it... Give government a little power and they will use it to the extreme to grow and tax.
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11-16-2009, 06:11 AM
Clint, you keep using "slippery slope" arguments, and it isn't really working.
Taking gasoline helps pay for highway and road maintenance. Where I live the taxes for cigarettes helps pay for treatments for smoking-related diseases (especially for people who can't afford the treatments). The increasing taxes also make smoking less attractive, especially for young people. When i was in high school cigarettes were about $1.50 a pack. Now they are about $5.00. By eliminating the high schooler market you are eliminating the future cost of paying for these people 30 years down the line when smoking is killing them. Taxes on liquor pay for alcohol rehabilitation programs. These taxes, for the most part, aren't preventing people access, but what they do is provide assistance when their vice gets the best of them. Why that wouldn't be applied to 100% non-healthy items like candy bars and cola is confusing to me. Like whiskey or cigarettes, cola is a luxury item. It cannot be argued there are any healthful benefits to drinking cola, or that taxing it a few cents a can would be preventative in allowing people to drink it. However, that tax could go directly to programs that help overweight folks or diabetics with their problems. Just because something is a government program doesn't mean is it is a black hole of wasted money.
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11-16-2009, 07:35 AM
[quote=MMM;783012]
"Quote:Originally Posted by MMM I think the idea that your weight is something that you yourself are the master of needs to come back to the surface. Many companies thrive by paying people to meet goals and punishing for not meeting goals. We learn those standards in grade school. Why do we pretend personal health is something we have no control over, when it is the one thing we probably have the most control over in our lives? Quote:Originally Posted by MMM clint, do you think people should have the right to engage in dangerously unhealthy behavior that ends up costing everyone more money (in higher insurance rates and medical costs)?" Quote:
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We are not talking about crack here... we're talking about cupcakes and common sense. Quote:
You just keep slipping on them. Quote:
Funny, I though my state taxes did that.. Anyway I just thought it odd why you threw that into the stack of addictive items that are bad for your health... seemed a little out of sorts. Seemed more like a save energy...spew Quote:
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Diabetics are not all there because of eating disorders or poor diet. Why do we need programs to tell people not to take that second piece of cake? This is stuff we learn in grade school. Anyway what you speak of is already in place in some states where food items are non-tax but candy and soda are taxable items. Funny thing is... when they pay with foodstamps... those items become non-taxable again hehehe those genius government programs. http://www.olivierandassociates.com/...S_U-4_0503.pdf Quote:
Anyone ever heard of the boston tea party?
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11-16-2009, 10:11 AM
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On one hand, as Americans, we feel like we should have the right to do whatever the hell we want to do as long as we are not directly hurting anyone else. The problem is that this way of thinking, I think, is a little short-sighted. But to address your point, like I said, I think personal weight is something people in the US SHOULD think of something they have control over. The irony is that in a country where personal freedoms are so religiously protected, some Americans turn around and say they are victims of the food they put in their mouths. There is the "rub" as we say, and, as we also say "you can't have your cake and eat it, too," though cake eating is hardly an extinct sport in America. So given the freedom to stuff their faces, what is the result? You know the answer as well as I, and as the negative attributes of alcohol and nicotine have resulted in essentially "sin taxes", the same will eventually happen the modern day legal vice of unhealthy food. It's just a matter of time. Quote:
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Let's turn it backwards. I don't want to pay for anything. What happens? Nothing. Do you want someone to answer when you dial 911? Do you want a cop to come when you are robbed? Do you want an ambulance to arrive if you are hurt? Do you want a hospital to be there if you are sick? Do you want a fire department to be there if your house is on fire? If the answer is "no" to all of these questions, then your point is fully made. However, if you are not willing to give up these services you will understand the need to look at WHO is using these services at exponentially larger rates than those who are living more healthy lives. Does taxing unhealthy lifestyles seem so crazy now?
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11-16-2009, 08:00 PM
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Please... this is a typical government liberal socialize us response is lets tax tax tax everybody and everything government wishes to fulfill their flawed budgets. I don't want to pay for stupid crop that will never get results. Taxing to get these so called poorly budgeted programs DOESN'T work because the irresponsible ones who destroy their bodies DON'T CARE. Do you really think a 25%, 75%, 200% tax on whatever will stop whomever from eating less. No. They will complain to Big Fast food on the price of their food and they will lower the price by lowering the quality. The majority of overweight people CAN afford it. The difference between this is, junk food in safe amounts doesn't hurt you, it doesn't make you healthier, but it doesn't hurt you. Why do I have to pay more for my guilty pleasure for those who don't care and are going to do it anyway. You can drag a horse to water but you can't make it drink. By creating this fictitious utopia of a fit nation of re-education and government power to tax and control us, we lose our freedom and our money. You say you are for people taking more responsibility and being master over their own body, but why even bother if there is a government program paid for those who are responsible to always tell you what you already know: don't eat that shite. There is no secret to a healthy diet or life style, the information is free, its just they have to work at it. LET THEM FAIL. STOP BAILING THEM OUT. MAKE THEM BANKRUPT IN THE ER AND STAY THAT WAY. If the risk of DEATH is not going to stop them from destroying themselves, NOTHING WILL. Stop this from becoming taxing my cheese, butter, sugar, , meat, cooking oil, chocolate etc.. There are zillions of food and ingredients that will make you fat. Should we just tax all foods that any overweight person can just fry up at home? There is no end. There comes a point at which we are going to have to ask ourselves how much we want to allow government to control and prod us. It's on us to solve the problem for ourselves and not expect government to trot in with a "solution" that solves nothing except its need to take more money from us.
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11-16-2009, 08:04 PM
If people want to eat themselves to heart-attacks, diabetes, and death that is fine. Let's make a program that can pay for it. That program doesn't exist now.
That's all I am saying. Add 5 cents to every can of cola sold. That alone would be enough to cover a lot of the ER visits by the morbidly obese who either can't or don't pay their hospital bills that you and I are paying for already.
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