Bowing to the emperor

[darksyndrem]

Originally Posted by MMM

It was a joke.

I would respond calling a small number of hyper-conservative pundits paid to create controversy the general term "Americans" is not fair to the majority of Americans who, thankfully, aren't that unintelligent and misinformed. I can tell you as an American, that it's pretty much not true.

Oh, I didn't catch on to that.

Well, I would have to say that the majority of Americans I have seen, aren't necessarily unintelligent, but rather, ignorant and misinformed. You should be smart enough to know that by "Americans" he doesn't mean every single American, but only a certain amount and such....he can't name them all for you.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by darksyndrem

Oh, I didn't catch on to that.

Well, I would have to say that the majority of Americans I have seen, aren't necessarily unintelligent, but rather, ignorant and misinformed. You should be smart enough to know that by "Americans" he doesn't mean every single American, but only a certain amount and such....he can't name them all for you.

No offense, dark, but you are also a high school student in South Carolina. Of course you have to go from your experiences, and I am just saying it may not be comprehensive enough to classify the majority of Americans into any one category.

Let me ask you this: Do you think the president was wrong in greeting the emperor of Japan with a bow?

[darksyndrem]

Originally Posted by MMM

No offense, dark, but you are also a high school student in South Carolina. Of course you have to go from your experiences, and I am just saying it may not be comprehensive enough to classify the majority of Americans into any one category.

Let me ask you this: Do you think the president was wrong in greeting the emperor of Japan with a bow?

And what else do you have to go from other than experience? I mean, I agree with you in some ways, but I think in this case, it's really not that big of a deal.

I don't think so at all. I think if the emperor of Japan came here to America, and refused to shake Obama's hand, it would be seen as very disrespectful to Obama and America. I would guess that Japan would think the same if Obama had refused to bow, yes?

[MMM]

Originally Posted by darksyndrem

And what else do you have to go from other than experience? I mean, I agree with you in some ways, but I think in this case, it's really not that big of a deal.

I don't think so at all. I think if the emperor of Japan came here to America, and refused to shake Obama's hand, it would be seen as very disrespectful to Obama and America. I would guess that Japan would think the same if Obama had refused to bow, yes?

I think the battleships would be in the water headed east if the emperor of Japan refused to shake our president's hand.

[darksyndrem]

Originally Posted by MMM

I think the battleships would be in the water headed east if the emperor of Japan refused to shake our president's hand.

Well, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that...since, if we had ships going towards Japan...well...Japan is to the west of America....I mean, it's both east and west since the Earth is round...but you know what I mean.

[bELyVIS]

Americans should be polite and try to adapt to others cultural differences, I think Obama is trying to do this. Many in the World hate us because of the fact that we (Americans in general) should act superior to appear stong. I bowed to Japanese in Japan, no big deal.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by darksyndrem

Well, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that...since, if we had ships going towards Japan...well...Japan is to the west of America....I mean, it's both east and west since the Earth is round...but you know what I mean.

You're right, I meant the East as in to Japan.

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

Americans should be polite and try to adapt to others cultural differences, I think Obama is trying to do this. Many in the World hate us because of the fact that we (Americans in general) should act superior to appear stong. I bowed to Japanese in Japan, no big deal.

It's hard not to.

[Tenchu]

Obama is in a foreign country visiting an older man in his house hold. It's be rude not to bow lower.

These people are dicks. I feel this is not mainstream news.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by MMM

My point exactly. Quoting bloggers is not "news".

The news from the acutal fox news article is Obama bowed and why this was thought by many to be wrong in his capacity of president of the USA. They got scholars on the matter to give their opinion (Presidentof the Protocol School of Washington) just as any news agency has to give as to why they quote "leaving some critics fuming".
There is no "I fox news" think anything.

Originally Posted by MMM

Explain to me why the Japanese bow is incorrect protocol when greeting someone in Japan. This is the opposite of the reality I have known for decades. When you meet someone for the first time, you bow.

You are of course correct its not incorrect for a greeting for someone in Japan. Everyone knows this. But it is for a head of state in an official capactity, according to protocol is is incorrect. Because as the leader of a nation, the president is representing all of the people of the nation he serves. For him to bow represents many things to many different people. As a leader of a foriegn nation it is improper protocol.

Originally Posted by MMM

I think the confusion is the meaning of the Japanese bow (greetings) and the meaning of the English term "bow down to someone" which means give up your defenses and allow them to take over.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by MMM

So it's an issue of semantics that makes FOX "News" and its pundits looks silly.

Well to be fair if you actually read the Fox news article here (which the original posted articled USED as source for their news on the acutal BOW)

Obama Draws Fire for Bow to Japanese Emperor - FOXNews.com

fox news isn't quoting bloggers, they quote the president of the Protocol School of Washington. The only mention is of a critic which the article's author felt was "fuming" .

But hey, we can all laugh about this at abc news. Its in the Home > Politics > Political Punch area of abc news.

On President Obama's Bow to the Japanese Emperor, An Academic Friend Writes That Both the Left and the Right Are Wrong - Political Punch

[MMM]

Originally Posted by clintjm

The news from the acutal fox news article is Obama bowed and why this was thought by many to be wrong in his capacity of president of the USA. They got scholars on the matter to give their opinion (President of the Protocol School of Washington) just as any news agency has to give as to why they quote "leaving some critics fuming".
There is no "I fox news" think anything.

When you say "thought by many" you mean "thought by many people who make a living being critical of the president". I don't think most Americans would look at that and think anything was wrong unless they were told.

Here's the FOX News article I am looking at:

Obama Draws Fire for Bow to Japanese Emperor - FOXNews.com

President Obama's deep bow to Japanese Emperor Akihito on Saturday may not have violated any official protocol, but critics of the presidential act of deference nevertheless say he's guilty of bad form.

In other words, he didn't actually break any protocol, but we are going to harp on it anyway, and we have a gaggle of talking heads who will back us up.

Pamela Eyring, the president of The Protocol School of Washington, said that while there's no "hard-and-fast" rule, a bow is not appropriate when national leaders meet.

Now, we know that when meeting someone in Japan, a bow is very appropriate. Again, mixing up the Japanese bow with the Western notion of "bowing down".

"They're peers. ... Unfortunately, it isn't correct for a chief of state to bow to another chief of state," she told FoxNews.com. "It's not appropriate. He should not be bowing to other chiefs of state."

No, Obama is peers with the prime minister. The emperor and his wife are royalty. That is a different position, as he is also a religious leader (Shinto) whose blood line has represented the people of Japan for thousands of years. Not exactly peers in the same way. As Tenchu said, he is an older gentleman and our president is visiting him in his home and his country.

Originally Posted by clintjm

You are of course correct its not incorrect for a greeting for someone in Japan. Everyone knows this. But it is for a head of state in an official capactity, according to protocol is is incorrect. Because as the leader of a nation, the president is representing all of the people of the nation he serves. For him to bow represents many things to many different people. As a leader of a foriegn nation it is improper protocol.

According to FOX News it didn't go against protocol and there are no "hard and fast" rules.

Explain how President Obama misrepresented you by bowing his head to the emperor.