Global Warming farce?

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by MMM

But it IS happening now.

Greenland: Glaciers Melt, Economy Heats Up
One Place in the World That May Actually Welcome Climate Change

(CBS) There's no mystery about the effect global warming is having on the great glaciers of Greenland. More ice breaking off and floating out sea than has ever been observed before.

CBS News correspondent Mark Phillips reports Greenland's most active glacier now sheds enough ice each year now to cover Manhattan almost a mile deep.

Space imagery of the glacier shows how it has been shrinking back over the years - supporting the scientific consensus that the Greenland ice-cap is thinning, the melt-water causing sea levels around the world to rise. Levels that are feared may rise another two feet or more this century by the most widely accepted estimates.

The mountain-sized icebergs have been called the best evidence of global warming on the planet.

What was once the edge of a glacier has been receding at an ever-quicker rate so that now you've got to travel some 50 miles straight up the fjord until you hit the glacial wall itself.

For Johannes Mathaussen and the 4,500 people who live in Ilulissat, warmer weather means having to adapt. If the sea ice doesn't freeze up solid, allowing them to go out to hunt seals and to fish, they can make money taking intrepid tourists on dog sled trips into the spectacular, if stark, hinterland.

The winters around here just aren't what they used to be. In the old days, it used to get to minus 50 degrees below zero, Fahrenheit. Now, just minus 13, Fahrenheit.

Yet Greenlanders - all 57,000 of them - share a quiet little secret. For them there may be a silver lining in the climate change cloud.

The glacier is speeding up, running twice as quickly as it was just five years ago. There's another thing that may be speeding up here: the economy.

Where Greenland's traditionally lived off fishing and a massive subsidy from the colonial authority, Denmark - there's now a construction boom going on in the capital of Nuuk, a town of about 17,000 people.

Mining companies are lining up to explore the rich deposits of gold, copper and iron ore that are becoming more accessible as the ice recedes from coastal regions.

And there are good signs as well of significant oil reserves offshore. Inside their mittens, Greenlanders may have their fingers crossed that their future looks bright.

The trick will be to preserve their traditions while adapting to the changes. There is a worry here that too much wealth too soon may not be a good thing.

"I am afraid of getting rich right away because it will affect a way of thinking," said Stina Berthelsen of the Inuit Circumpolar Youth Council. "I do trust our people that we're going to figure it out. We're survivors."

Back on his dogsled, Johannes Mathaussen may be concerned that the old ways will have to change here. And he's not yet thinking of himself as a Sled Dog Millionaire. But, whatever devastation climate change may cause elsewhere in the world, you get the sense Johannes thinks that here, on the edge of civilization, there may also be good times ahead.

Did you ever wonder why "Greenland" was given that name? Because when the first European settlers arrived, it was, in fact, green. The climate was far warmer between the 8th and 13th centuries than it is today. But then the world became much colder in the 14th and 15th centuries, and most of the farms and settlements became buried under ice. The world has gotten warmer again, but climate change scientists tend to leave the warm weather of this earlier period out of their charts, and start their charts in the middle of the colder period.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

Did you ever wonder why "Greenland" was given that name? Because when the first European settlers arrived, it was, in fact, green. The climate was far warmer between the 8th and 13th centuries than it is today. But then the world became much colder in the 14th and 15th centuries, and most of the farms and settlements became buried under ice. The world has gotten warmer again, but climate change scientists tend to leave the warm weather of this earlier period out of their charts, and start their charts in the middle of the colder period.

I wondered until I learned that Erik the Red named it Greenland in hopes to attract more settlers about 1000 years ago.

[Ryzorian]

The earth is getting warming...big deal...it's been there and done that ...many times... More CO2 in the air? big deal, plants grow better with more CO2, bigger, stronger, produce more. Haveing poor countries try to use some quasi "global warming" threat to shake down rich nations is just silly.

They either learn to utilize thier natural resources more effciently or some one else from another nation will do it for them. Survival of the fittest, evolution at it's finest...

Sure alot of countries have reduced vast sections of thier forrests to nothing, that isn't over population, it's poor land management.

One Volcano puts out more CO2 than man has produced in the last 100 years. What are you going to do? blame volcanos for not being "green" enough?

World populations require a birth rate of 2.1 to maintain basic stability, anything below that and that population faces stagnation and eventual decline. Much of Europe has that problem now and so does Japan.

It's ridiculas to think I should lower my standard of liveing, something I worked hard for, just because of Chicken Little. Forget it, not doing it.
Besides, you think any of those national leaders are going to stop liveing high on the hog? even from those "poor" nations? You thing Hugo lives poorly?

Greenland was called Greenland because it was green, that's fact. There were several documented settlements that did very well for several hundred years, then it got cold, really cold...now it's getting warmer again, it happens.

Britain used to grow wine grapes 300 miles further North than they can now,( because it's currently too cold) this was just a few hundred years ago...that's also fact. France almost went to war over British wine makeing. Europe used to be much warmer than it is now, they grew massive amounts of grain and had a population explosion tripling their numbers with in a few decades. Then it got colder and they had huge die offs.

It's cyclical, warming and cooling happens ever 500 years or so, they have deep sea cores that show this cycal going back tens of thousands of years. It's due to get a few dagree's warmer globally in the next hundred years anyway, despite what we do, because of that cycal.

[MMM]

After WWII we found all kinds of ways to make crops grow bigger and faster and to kill bugs and other natural enemies in new and exciting ways.

It didn't that many years (but more than a couple) to figure out all those chemicals and fertilizers were actually harmful to not only to the ecology, but also to consumers.

I am 100% fine with the notion that global warming is a natural process that goes up and down over decades or centuries in an regular or irregular cycle.

However, I cannot accept the fact that humans and human industry have no affect on the environment, and therefore can do nothing to make the environment better.

Fly into Los Angeles and look out the window before you land (on a clear day). It's really very disarming. Tell me that is nothing but a completely man made smog bowl thanks to millions of cars burning millions of gallons of gasoline in one city alone, every day.

Instead of top-down, tell me bottom up that has no effect on the environment, as it certainly has an effect on the people that live there. On many days it is healthier to stay indoors than it is to go jogging in Los Angeles.

So, no, I don't think Al Gore is a thief trying to take advantage of people's naivety, I think his heart is sincere and well-intentioned.

[IamKira]

Originally Posted by MMM

So, no, I don't think Al Gore is a thief trying to take advantage of people's naivety, I think his heart is sincere and well-intentioned.

I highly doubt Mr. Gore is well intentioned (any time someone is making a profit from an activity corruption is inevitable.. non-profit groups aren't as susceptible to this), but I do agree with limiting resource consumption and our environmental impact and all that goody goody stuff

[MMM]

Originally Posted by IamKira

I highly doubt Mr. Gore is well intentioned (any time someone is making a profit from an activity corruption is inevitable.. non-profit groups aren't as susceptible to this), but I do agree with limiting resource consumption and our environmental impact and all that goody goody stuff

I almost didn't put that last sentence in because I figured someone would only quote it without addressing the other things I said. I should have gone with instinct.

I repost without the last sentence.

After WWII we found all kinds of ways to make crops grow bigger and faster and to kill bugs and other natural enemies in new and exciting ways.

It didn't that many years (but more than a couple) to figure out all those chemicals and fertilizers were actually harmful to not only to the ecology, but also to consumers.

I am 100% fine with the notion that global warming is a natural process that goes up and down over decades or centuries in an regular or irregular cycle.

However, I cannot accept the fact that humans and human industry have no affect on the environment, and therefore can do nothing to make the environment better.

Fly into Los Angeles and look out the window before you land (on a clear day). It's really very disarming. Tell me that is nothing but a completely man made smog bowl thanks to millions of cars burning millions of gallons of gasoline in one city alone, every day.

Instead of top-down, tell me bottom up that has no effect on the environment, as it certainly has an effect on the people that live there. On many days it is healthier to stay indoors than it is to go jogging in Los Angeles.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by MMM

So, no, I don't think Al Gore is a thief trying to take advantage of people's naivety, I think his heart is sincere and well-intentioned.

I almost didn't put that last sentence in because I figured someone would only quote it without addressing the other things I said. I should have gone with instinct.

TOO LATE!...

Hypocrite, yes. Thief, maybe, maybe not. Heart... well... he actually might believe the stuff he has created. He might even believe he created the Internet ^^/
With the power and status he holds, he is doing more harm than good with the sky is falling notion. Even as you are on board with notion that Global Warming/ Climate change is a natural process can see that Gore is simply creating panic and waist where it does not need to be.
The thing is he refuses to debate the issue. Time and time again, refuses to debate the issue and just takes the stand on, its not theory, its been decided, no debate.
That is not good intentions IF he is unwilling to have an open mind. There is room for debate, always, moreso now than ever.

No but the your argument is fair in the rest of your post before mentioning Gore...

I can accept humanity affecting the amount of pollution but not to the extent of climate change or the quoted "EMERGENCY" Gore and the likes are creating. The earth has proven to have take quite a beaten by man through history and the earth has also given quite a beaten.

It will be great when one day we can all telecommute for those jobs that allow it. That is pollution and energy change I can really go for. The technology is here now.
In reality though, even if the job is capable of this, this will never happen.

All big cities of the world have a while to go before getting away from the smog and pollution of today. I don't remember Tokyo's air being that clean either.

Which major cities in the world has the worst air pollution? And which major cities in the world has the best air quality? - HelpGlobe.World.Places


Interesting Air Pollution Facts For Travellers

[MMM]

Thank you Clint for at least acknowledging my question. I have asked it more than once not out of politics but out of legitimate curiosity because i don't know the answer.

[Salvanas]

MMM: I have huge doubts that global warming is man made.

I can remember an article I read a while back. It was the temperature, and the climate change during the huge industrial revolution in Britain. (If you don't know about it. It's the space of time where industry exploded, and everything was suddenly mass produced. Much more than today actually.)

Funnily enough, during the century of when this happened. Temperatures did not rise. Nor did it get hotter. It got colder.

Yes, it was smoggy. But depositing huge amounts of Co2 in the air should make it warmer, no? It didn't.

And still today, the only place that is warming up, is Greenland. Everywhere else is getting colder. We've had one of the wettest and coldest winters in Britian so far.

IT just doesn't add up that it's man made.

I'm not saying that let's just pollute the earth, that's a different thing. But Global warming is not something we can control.

[Ito]

I saw documentary on how scientist belive word would be 75 years from now.
It wasent any nice sight, people where dieing of thurst. U cant farm vines in France anymore becouse its to dry and not enought water.
Things sickens me now wen all swedish people claim there are invormentalist and they take car everywhere, for only shop one bag of food.

I think people should start driving less and use bike. I use my feet mostly where im going, then train to larger city. Going to holland for the first time by air. Never been on airplane before and im 23 years old. But there are people who have afford to do that all the time.

Not only is the co2 problem in this word is all the garbage of plastic that is floting in the ocean in the size of texas.

Cheers Ito