Quick question: racist USA stereotypes in Japan?

[ozkai]

Originally Posted by JoshAussie

Then is it unknowingly racist? Surely (besides the names "red man") Disney hasn't added anything blatantly racist into the show. I just don't think a Japanese child (or any child) without being told specifically why it's "bad" can know that it's racist unless told otherwise. If the name loses it's context then it can't be racist anymore, well it can't be directly racist. It can be indirectly racist, for example if a Japanese child called a black child "red man" would it be racist? Only if the one of them knew the history behind the name. otherwise it's context would be a Disney cartoon.

The topic of racism is to large I do not like these sort of discussions because I am horrible at getting my point across, people often get the wrong Idea (something I may not have meant at all) and can never be bothered trying to explain again.

I do see however, if in any cartoon, there were only 1 black child was called red man and all the asian children (in the cartoon, I say children because im thinking peter pan) could use that to bully another child. But children are dumb, if they are going to pick on each other it's down to bad parenting. What they say has no context (children will pick on other children for any reason if they are going to argue anyway) but by disney singling out a "skin color" to a specific name I see how it's original context could hang around. however, if it in the show there 2 children of different skin color called redman, children could still use it to bully other children but the (here's the word again) original context would not be there. It would just be a disney cartoon and nothing else.

I can say that my son's favourite videos of ELmo are full of African American bubs without a white kid in sight,... Any idea why?

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by JoshAussie

Then is it unknowingly racist? Surely (besides the names "red man") Disney hasn't added anything blatantly racist into the show. I just don't think a Japanese child (or any child) without being told specifically why it's "bad" can know that it's racist unless told otherwise. If the name loses it's context then it can't be racist anymore, well it can't be directly racist. It can be indirectly racist, for example if a Japanese child called a black child "red man" would it be racist? Only if the one of them knew the history behind the name. otherwise it's context would be a Disney cartoon.

The topic of racism is to large I do not like these sort of discussions because I am horrible at getting my point across, people often get the wrong Idea (something I may not have meant at all) and can never be bothered trying to explain again.

I do see however, if in any cartoon, there were only 1 black child was called red man and all the asian children (in the cartoon, I say children because im thinking peter pan) could use that to bully another child. But children are dumb, if they are going to pick on each other it's down to bad parenting. What they say has no context (children will pick on other children for any reason if they are going to argue anyway) but by disney singling out a "skin color" to a specific name I see how it's original context could hang around. however, if it in the show there 2 children of different skin color called redman, children could still use it to bully other children but the (here's the word again) original context would not be there. It would just be a disney cartoon and nothing else.

Well, decide for yourself: YouTube - Peter Pan in Japanese Part 6/8

Personally, I think that this is terrible negative stereotypical imagery.

The caricatures of red skin, hideous men, and similar bodies make the race unnatractive and takes away from human quality.

The "explanations" of the culture and language makes the culture seem petty and childlike as well as slightly primitive, what with the line, "The red man did not know a lot, but they learned by asking, 'How?'" and the suggestion that "they're red because the first Injun prince kissed a maid and blushed." According to the song, they've been blushing since.

A child doesn't necessarily know what is right or wrong, but that doesn't change the fact they'll grow up believing what they're told. I'll use myself as an example. When I was a kid, I LOVED Peter Pan, and I most certainly did believe the stories from this song.

As for a Japanese child, I don't know. That's an interesting point, because I've been told that there generally isn't an distinction between one race and the other here - "we're all just foreigners." However, even then, if a child were to say that I am "red" because the child put "red" together with "foreigner," I do still believe that's racist. I'm not the correct race the child is thinking of, but he or she still identified me with a red, ugly, faceless caricature with a primitive culture.

[TalnSG]

Disney is not one of my favorite production companies when it comes to its portrayal of my ancestors, but if you are going to use the example of ANY production of Peter Pan, you need to go back to the source - not Disney's adaptation. The original work was English and the racist stereotype was solidily in place in the that work. But one must temper a criticism of the author with the knowledge that his society knew little about Native Americans and what they did know was based on reports of violent conflicts and NA brought to the England and the rest of Europe as either sideshows or novelty acts.

When you compound the original work with Disney exaggeration and simplification of the stereotype for production sake and then the limited exposure of foreigners to true Native American culture a favorable result is not expected.

And then you have the problem of even somewhat enlightened Americans - lumping all Native American tribes into one culture. WE ARE NOT!

[darksyndrem]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

Hi everyone,
I'm working on a project for class, and I need help! I'm trying to figure out if racist USA stereotypes of Native Americans are popular in Japan. I've seen racist stereotypes of black people, but never of Native Americans... and yet, for my project, I see in the Japanese version of Peter Pan that it's stocked full of racist Native American stereotypes. (For example, "red man.") But, if this stereotype isn't popular in Japan, then how will the Japanese audience understand the "red man" stereotype?

What do you guys think? Is the "red mad" stereotype more understood than I think it is?

And feel free to discuss any other racist USA stereotypes seen in Japan. It's an interesting subject.

Of course you have

[MMM]

Originally Posted by ozkai

America is not the most popular place in Japan.

What is the basis for this statement?

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by ozkai

What are your neighbourhood "gang wars" all about?

Huh? You make no sense now.

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

I think you should do something with your life other than trying to start petty arguments on the Internet. Unless you'd like to try using your brain and actually coming up with an intelligent answer to one of my questions for once.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but good Lord am I ever tired of having Internet stalkers who don't have anything useful to say. I'm trying to learn. And you? You, unfortunately, remind me of kids in classrooms who have such low self esteem that they do nothing but mutter about how stupid everyone else is while you yourself are getting a failing grade.

WHEW. Felt good to type that out. But still, maybe not worth getting upset over. I'd forgotten why I'd gone on hiatus.

LOL, we (yes plenty of members) have been debating for you over racism in how many threads? 3, 4? I can't believe you still think I never gave you a valid argument after all that talk we had. You just won't accept that you're obsessed.

http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...-bullying.html
http://www.japanforum.com/forum/site...ne-sexism.html
http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...39-n-word.html
http://www.japanforum.com/forum/rela...ying-home.html
http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...pes-japan.html
http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...oming-%22.html

Half of your threads are about sexism and racism. All your posts are controversial and you disagree even when proven wrong. I hate to debate with you, as proven in all the links above. Go read if you forgot how many times I replied there.

Also, don't get encouraged by a fail troll like ozkai. He's one of the cancers of JF, kinda like VG was, after all he was her only supporter.

[Salvanas]

I would just like to point out that worrying about Disney polluting children's minds with racism isn't where the root of the problem is.

We've all watched Disney films when we were kids.

I don't think any of us to this day, has gotten up and said "<Race> is bad, because Disney said so."

We've all grown up, and relied on either our parent's, or our society to teach us the realities of racism, and different races.

To be honest, I would have thought the question; "How does the personality of the older generation affect racism in children?" would have been more apt for your project.

[Ryzorian]

Everyone is racist in a way, it's just more jarringly obvious in America becuase that country is the great "melting pot", trying to absorb every known race and or culture out there. I would hazzard a guess that America has allways been like that, even before Europeans showed up, the Native tribes were as culturally diverse as the nations are today.

[ozkai]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

Everyone is racist in a way, it's just more jarringly obvious in America becuase that country is the great "melting pot", trying to absorb every known race and or culture out there. I would hazzard a guess that America has allways been like that, even before Europeans showed up, the Native tribes were as culturally diverse as the nations are today.

Whilst I believe "racism" is so connected to ignorance and non experience, I believe it is actually the native people's of countries who are the racists.

The majority of them have good reasons.

Look at the American Indians. Look at the Australian Aboriginies. Look at the Japanese Ainu. Look at the Amzon Tribes.

They all lived within their homelands and cultures until white man came to lay down their new laws and slaughter them.

Is white man really to blame?

[xYinniex]

why are you ruining disney for me? I grew up on disney.

That's not cool.