Is Love Selfish? -For those out there that are creative thinkers

[Tyrien]

Originally Posted by iPhantom

How did you bring that conclusion though. You're the one making it confusing. You say 'we love because it makes us happy', but that is not true, not even in literal sense.

However there is no love without happiness, that is true, because it would not be love.

Like I said, if you count 'happiness' as being selfish, there is a bit of it on many actions we do, thus us being a bit selfish, but what defines if we're selfish or not is the primary reason we did that action. Literally or practically, it is the same way.

Well I've already explained that, but if you inisist I'll reiterate.

Happiness is a desired emotion by all of us. Every action we take, translates back to preserving our happiness. I can list example after example, but that's irrelevant because we're not talking about anything but love. I only mention it because it is true.

Looking at love any action we take for or against a love one may or may not benefit that love one.

I'm going to use an example of extremes. A man has the opportunity to save his wife's life. The action puts the man in harms way. He does it anyway. Why?

You argue that the man does this because he loves her eternally, and would do anything for her sake. You say his intentions are pure because he has no concern for his own safety; only hers.

This is where I come in, and take it a step beyond what you're saying. My argument is that he is willing to be placed in harms way for his wife because it is in the subconscious reaction of mental self preservation. The man would be miserable without is wife; therefore, his thought process roots back to self gain. His primary interest is in himself.

This is a literal take on the situation because it links each action back to directly benefiting the man. He gains happiness, and when broken down to nothing that is his only desire.

Everyone does this; it's unavoidable for just about all of us. Keeping in mind the fact that this applies to all of us then, then we can exempt this behavior from consideration, and move back to a practical sense of defining love to be selfish or not.

With that said; Love is not selfish in practice.

[thcuteness]

Love is selfish, when you think about everything in life that you do is selfish.

[JasonTakeshi]

Originally Posted by Tyrien

Well I've already explained that, but if you inisist I'll reiterate.

Happiness is a desired emotion by all of us. Every action we take, translates back to preserving our happiness. I can list example after example, but that's irrelevant because we're not talking about anything but love. I only mention it because it is true.

Looking at love any action we take for or against a love one may or may not benefit that love one.

I'm going to use an example of extremes. A man has the opportunity to save his wife's life. The action puts the man in harms way. He does it anyway. Why?

You argue that the man does this because he loves her eternally, and would do anything for her sake. You say his intentions are pure because he has no concern for his own safety; only hers.

This is where I come in, and take it a step beyond what you're saying. My argument is that he is willing to be placed in harms way for his wife because it is in the subconscious reaction of mental self preservation. The man would be miserable without is wife; therefore, his thought process roots back to self gain. His primary interest is in himself.

This is a literal take on the situation because it links each action back to directly benefiting the man. He gains happiness, and when broken down to nothing that is his only desire.

Everyone does this; it's unavoidable for just about all of us. Keeping in mind the fact that this applies to all of us then, then we can exempt this behavior from consideration, and move back to a practical sense of defining love to be selfish or not.

With that said; Love is not selfish in practice.

Don't waste your time, seriously. I already gave similar examples and he keeps saying the same thing.

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by Tyrien

Well I've already explained that, but if you inisist I'll reiterate.

Happiness is a desired emotion by all of us. Every action we take, translates back to preserving our happiness. I can list example after example, but that's irrelevant because we're not talking about anything but love. I only mention it because it is true.

Looking at love any action we take for or against a love one may or may not benefit that love one.

I'm going to use an example of extremes. A man has the opportunity to save his wife's life. The action puts the man in harms way. He does it anyway. Why?

You argue that the man does this because he loves her eternally, and would do anything for her sake. You say his intentions are pure because he has no concern for his own safety; only hers.

This is where I come in, and take it a step beyond what you're saying. My argument is that he is willing to be placed in harms way for his wife because it is in the subconscious reaction of mental self preservation. The man would be miserable without is wife; therefore, his thought process roots back to self gain. His primary interest is in himself.

This is a literal take on the situation because it links each action back to directly benefiting the man. He gains happiness, and when broken down to nothing that is his only desire.

Everyone does this; it's unavoidable for just about all of us. Keeping in mind the fact that this applies to all of us then, then we can exempt this behavior from consideration, and move back to a practical sense of defining love to be selfish or not.

With that said; Love is not selfish in practice.

Same deal as JasonTakeshi. don't you understand that whether everything translates to happiness and sadness, you're not selfish because your primary concern was to save a person?

Selfishness is the act of placing one's own needs or desires above the needs or desires of others. In your example, he puts other's needs (saving them), before his (happiness or whatever you'd like). So he's not selfish.

[Tyrien]

Originally Posted by iPhantom

Same deal as JasonTakeshi. don't you understand that whether everything translates to happiness and sadness, you're not selfish because your primary concern was to save a person?

Selfishness is the act of placing one's own needs or desires above the needs or desires of others. In your example, he puts other's needs (saving them), before his (happiness or whatever you'd like). So he's not selfish.

Sigh... stop telling people they don't understand something when you can't bother to actually read what they're saying.

I'm agreeing with you, but I'm stating that we all react for ourselves as the primary concern. Everything we do is for ourselves LONG before we consciously decide it's for someone else.

Fine though, apparently you refuse to accept the fact that there are multiple perspectives to an issue. I'm not re-wording what I've said in yet another hope that you'll understand it.

[gyl0119]

Tyrien, Like Jason has stated, he refuses the gray areas, he can only comprehend black/white, which is the standard set by our society.

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by Tyrien

Sigh... stop telling people they don't understand something when you can't bother to actually read what they're saying.

I'm agreeing with you, but I'm stating that we all react for ourselves as the primary concern. Everything we do is for ourselves LONG before we consciously decide it's for someone else.

Fine though, apparently you refuse to accept the fact that there are multiple perspectives to an issue. I'm not re-wording what I've said in yet another hope that you'll understand it.

Stop assuming I never read what you said, making it like what you said is right. If you aren't aware this has been a huge debate between parties for years up to now.

Unconscious decisions do not decide if you are selfish or not. It's your conscious which makes you the person you are, and the one making up your primary decisions. Which leads back to my point. The subconscious thing cannot be prevented, but it's a secondary effect of our main decision.

You save a person dear to you because you love them and would want the best for them ---> Happy | You don't save a person dear to you ---> Sad

It's not the way around. It's not 'You want to become happy ---> Go save a person dear to you'.

I used the easiest method to show to you, with text schemes. Hope it's clear now.

Originally Posted by gyl0119

Tyrien, Like Jason has stated, he refuses the gray areas, he can only comprehend black/white, which is the standard set by our society.

When did I refuse gray areas? I agreed that you do a little bit for yourself when loving someone, but it's the interpretation you're doing which is wrong. Read above your quote here to find out.

[gyl0119]

which part of a concept do u not understand,
there is no right or wrong here MR.
we are only looking at this from multi perspectives.

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by gyl0119

which part of a concept do u not understand,
there is no right or wrong here MR.
we are only looking at this from multi perspectives.

What? o.O Do you look a car from behind and say that's the front? There is no multi-perspective here.

I'm surprised the three of you think true love is selfish. I don't want to assume if you ever have felt it or not, but I'm just saying, many philosophers have linked true love to altruism. It's called altruistic love as well. There are books about it. The phrase 'love doesn't seek its own interest' is pretty clear. All the emotions it brings are aftereffects of love. There is also sadness involved in true love, not just happiness.

Also, you don't only seek to be happy by yourself, but also for your partner (actually more than you). You might say you're happy she's happy, but it doesn't work that way. The fact that you put another person before your interests, means you're altruistic.

Uncontrollable emotions like the one Tyrien explained (that everything translates back to our happiness) is unconscious, and isn't a deciding factor in this matter. Check out some examples of selfishness and altruism and you will understand what is defined this and that.

@Tyrien: Do you also think, like JasonTakeshi, that donating to a charity is selfish?

Man, I was hearing plenty of people saying how selfish some people are for not donating for Haiti. I'm sure JasonTakeshi hasn't done that, since you know... it would be a waste, he would still be selfish even after donating.

What you all are seeking here is pure altruism, but there is no such thing. But still, love is altruistic, no matter how very little selfish act is involved.

[Tyrien]

Originally Posted by iPhantom

What? o.O Do you look a car from behind and say that's the front? There is no multi-perspective here.

I'm surprised the three of you think true love is selfish. I don't want to assume if you ever have felt it or not, but I'm just saying, many philosophers have linked true love to altruism. It's called altruistic love as well. There are books about it. The phrase 'love doesn't seek its own interest' is pretty clear. All the emotions it brings are aftereffects of love. There is also sadness involved in true love, not just happiness.

Also, you don't only seek to be happy by yourself, but also for your partner (actually more than you). You might say you're happy she's happy, but it doesn't work that way. The fact that you put another person before your interests, means you're altruistic.

Uncontrollable emotions like the one Tyrien explained (that everything translates back to our happiness) is unconscious, and isn't a deciding factor in this matter. Check out some examples of selfishness and altruism and you will understand what is defined this and that.

@Tyrien: Do you also think, like JasonTakeshi, that donating to a charity is selfish?

Man, I was hearing plenty of people saying how selfish some people are for not donating for Haiti. I'm sure JasonTakeshi hasn't done that, since you know... it would be a waste, he would still be selfish even after donating.

What you all are seeking here is pure altruism, but there is no such thing. But still, love is altruistic, no matter how very little selfish act is involved.

Okay you're making this incredibly difficult.

First you cannot compare a tangible object to the discussion of idealogical meaning. It doesn't work so please stop trying to do so.

You keep referring to selfish behavior as one which has a primary concern relating to one's self. That's exactly what I'm referring to when talking about love being selfish. It's a subconscious behavior that we all do as a built in survival instinct. We make conscious justifications for our actions, but these actions always root back to ourselves as the primary benefactor.

However the part you cannot seem to comprehend, or rather are refusing to comprehend is that I exempted that behavior from deciding whether love is selfish in practice or not because it is an unavoidable instinctive behavior that we all do; a constant before any conscious justification is ever made.

This is now the third time I've said this, so I'll try and make it very clear. Love is not selfish in practice.