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03-21-2010, 07:10 AM
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That's me, Clint. Two years ago I paid less than half of what I pay today to give my family health insurance coverage. That's the price I pay for being self-employed. We have health issues, but they are considered "elective" by our insurance company because they are not life threatening. So what am I paying for? Please help me on that. Literally and seriously, we are using a foreign country's government plan to deal with our medical issues. What does that say about the state of American public health care? 
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03-21-2010, 08:09 AM
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You seem to be in the 15% of America's population that is isn't happy with their insurance. Of the other 85% that have health insurance 95% of them are happy with it. What are you paying for? The sky high price of health care. Insruance companies are only following suites. Insurance should be affordable, which is seems to be for you, but not comfortable. You may be struggling, but like you said, a choice you made to be self employed. I still say some just won't pay for insurance because they don't think its worth it. But how much are people, self employed, are paying a year in premiums for a family? 8k, 10k? Are you saying, if they had to, they couldn't adjust their life style to meet that requirement? Rent instead of mortgage? Go without cable/satelite, internet (at home), i-phone, extra or newer car(s)? Not have a TV in every other room, with at least one game console and games? Eating out 3 or more times a week. The fact is a majority of Americans do not feel they need tosave or budget anymore and always are keeping up with the neighbors, or an entitlement complex. This is something I rarely see in Japan in contrast; but there are always exceptions. Sure reform of rising health care costs is needed. The health insruance companies are not true root of the problem. Despite what the prez offered as olive branch to the GOP; that he would look at letting health insurance companies cross state boundaries, Tort reform, etc... it was all talk. Now here we are with a bill where no one knows what is in it Your point is taken... insurance premiums are insane high in case of personal or small business insurance. This as a result of rising health care costs plus the occasional insurnacne company that is sticking it to the customers for a bigger profit. Biggests denier of claims in recent years out of all the insurnance companies: Medicare. Now the governemtn wants to control insurnace companies. Reform yes, but really, not was is on the hill now. We can slam articles back and forwarth about how Japan, Canada, France, Denmark etc etc etc are or aren't a socialist health care/insurance utopia and how the US should or shouldn't be more like them. The fact it is apples and oranges. America is a much more populated and dynamic country. We have an illegal immigration problem, we have a broken health care entitlement system that is tried to be fixed by a new larger take over entitlement. The Obama crowd is promising the American people streets of gold, which we know aren't physically possibly. I wish you the best of correcting your premium issue. But the kool-aid being offered up isn't going to solve it. Quote:
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03-21-2010, 11:29 AM
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I didn't get my information from the FOX/AP poll, I got it from Gallup. Who says Obama' approval rating is 53%? Gallup says 48%, Pew says 46%, Rasmussen says 43%, NBC says 48%. With all polls taken into account, Obama's approval rating is 47.2%, and his disapproval rating is 47.8% And, which party holds the majority in both houses of Congress? Who is really doing nothing? Until a few months ago Obama's party and a decisive advantage in the senate and house, and still no legislation was passed. Before saying about how 45.000 people in America die each year without insurance, consider that anyone and everyone in America can demand treatment regardless of their ability to pay or insurance status, at any hospital, at any time. Illegal aliens with drug resistant tuberculosis are being treated free of charge (at about $1,000,000 per year, how many illegal aliens get free treatment at UK, Canada, or Japan hospitals?). Many people in Japan die each year because "free" medical care demands that services are limited. Emergency rooms in most places are not open 24 hours, and even those which are open will not see patients if their day's patient quota is full. And, we mustn't forget the cost, Japan's national debt vs GDP is twice that of America's, which is bad enough. With the current population aging, and fewer childred being born, Japan is headed for hard times. A time will come in the when Japan can no longer afford to pay for it's social programs, what then? As for the UK, medical services are also rationed. Treatments which can be completed within days in America may require months of waiting in the UK. Those in the UK who have money often travel to the US or other countries to receive treatment rather than wait.
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03-21-2010, 12:19 PM
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A US representative was rebuked some months ago when he yelled "You lie!" when Obama said his health care program would not pay for treatment for illegal aliens. It turns out that Obama did lie, though language was added to the bill which specifically said illegal aliens would not qualify, there is no provision for patients to provide proof of citizenship to qualify for treatments. Typical. Ask your doctor how much his malpractice insurance is each year. You might be surprised to find that his premiums may be higher than his actual coverage. But of course, tort reform is not part of the current health care reform bill. A patient can sue for millions (and win) in malpractice cases, even if he were to earn less than $1,000,000 over his lifetime in his current profession. Who pays? The doctor? The hospital? The insurance company? Yes, they do, but the costs are then passed on to everyone else. The cost for treating illegal aliens is staggering. In Florida, state costs are $165,000,000 per year, Georgia spends $210,000,000 per year, in California it's $1.45 billion, Virginia, $98,000,000 per year, Texas and New Mexico, $832,000,000, Minnesota, $35,000,000, etc. etc. The cost to the federal government is difficult to pin down. Is it any wonder why health care is so expensive? If the people of America didn't have to pay for the medical treatment of 12,000,000 illegal aliens, perhaps enough money would be saved to pay for their own treatment.
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03-21-2010, 04:20 PM
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Also, I posted this because I thought it would be a pretty good argument here.
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03-21-2010, 05:25 PM
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I can scarcely afford my 20% increase as well. Quote:
Can you please show your source that says 68% of voters intend to vote out their incumbent elected officials? Quote:
Interesting how Republicans lauded the previous present for not leading by polls but by his own values, and then they now criticize the present president for not leading by (their) polls. Quote:
GOP Filibuster Record: Republicans Using Obstruction Tool With Astonishing Frequency The democrats do not hold an actual majority any longer. These are all things you know, so I really don't need to tell you, but this is for those that may not understand why a Democrat president and a Democratic congress appear to not be able to get anything done. Majority and Minority are not as simple as some would have think. Quote:
The access to free coverage in the US by illegals (or by visitors) has nothing to do with your debate...but are you advocating taking health care and not paying for it? Certainly lots of people do that every day. It doesn't help the health care system, as in the end WE all end up paying for it. Wouldn't it be better to have a system where all Americans could get affordable treatment for preventable problems instead of going to the ER when their problem becomes deadly? Quote:
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sorta not -
03-21-2010, 08:35 PM
let's bash the illegal immigrate for the United States health care system that cost the US taxpayer twice what health care systems cost in the E.U. and Canada?
Unless you have hit your head l8tly the latest piece of legislation that will be shoved down the US taxpayers throat was written by the US healthcare Industry itself - not the government. Health Care Industry has reported healthy profits before and during the hubris over the latest National Health Care Pkg. The Health Care Industry has doled out lots of cash and has an army of K street lawyers that descend on Washington like flys . The total illegal immigrate population in the US hovers roughly at 7.9% of total population and does have a modest impact on healthcare services across the country. But with the knowlege that illegal immigrates use of these services have offsets due to illegal immigrates file and pay taxes. - WSJ - Bloomberg / 2010 The IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year. Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes. Undocumented workers are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security alone. Early studies in California and in the Southwest and in the Southeast' on the impact of immigrate households on local and state resources- Households headed by undocumented immigrants use less than half the amount of federal services that households headed by documented immigrants or citizens make use of. Translation the US Health Care Industry makes money the old fashion way by 'denying service'. Trying to foist the mishap or how the US health care operates by putting the blame on immigrates does not pass muster - the EU has equal number if not more illegal immigrates and it's healthe care system delivers a superior service for half the cost of what US taxpayer pays USD.
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03-22-2010, 01:41 AM
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And, access to free health care by illegals has everything to do with the debate. The main reason why healthcare and insurance are so expensive is the large numbers of people who receive care and never pay. The costs I listed in the states above are only a fraction of how much is actually lost each year, and those are net costs, already subtracting what little federal reimbursement has been received. Since the federal government only pays a small part of the losses, the rest is covered by increasing the cost for those who do pay; namely, you and I, and our insurance companies. As the current health care program is written, there will be no provision requiring people to show proof of citizenship to qualify, which means that people who do not pay into the system may still demand treatment from it. Lastly, where is the money going to come from to pay for this program? How much tax do you pay right now, personally? Income tax, sales tax, social security tax, gas tax, registration tax, property tax, utility tax... have you ever computed the amount of money you pay in tax each year? How much more can you bear to pay? Do you think your premiums will decrease if the healthcare bill passes? And, if they do, how long will those lower premiums last? How much do you think your children will have to pay? We already know that Social Security will become insolvent in just a few years unless drastic measures are taken, yet everyone is afraid right now to mention that problem. Won't it be nice if your health insurance premiums decrease by 25%, but your Social Security payments increase by 40%? Do you wonder why California is facing such a crisis right now? Over the last several years businesses have found it increasingly unaffordable to do business in California, mainly because of the high taxes there, so they've moved to states where taxes are lower, like Nevada, Texas, and others. The same thing occurs on a national level. In a world economy, we can easily move our manufacturing, accounting, or customer service to another country. The government is increasingly taking control of the parts of our lives which we used to be responsible for, but charging more for it, and giving us less in return. The government are financial and economic buffoons, who spend $5 for every $1 in tax collected, yet, you think that somehow they can manage government subsidized health care effectively? Once again, it is not the government's job to take care of us, it is the government's job to maintain an environment that allows us to take care of ourselves.
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03-22-2010, 01:52 AM
85% of Americans happy with their health insurance? I have met exactly one American in the last four years who is happy with their current care.
That number has been bandied around, but I've never seen any direct evidence of its truth. All direct evidence I have suggests the opposite: the vast majority of Americans are decidedly unhappy about the cost of healthcare in America. I know I am.  <- AnimeMusicVideos.Org
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03-22-2010, 03:14 AM
Sangetsu, I made a few simple requests to you. As this health insurance reform plan passes this evening and John Boehner eats his words and Rush Limbaugh packs his bags for Costa Rica I will ask you to address the comments I made to you before I put more effort into addressing the points you are making.
I think that is fair. Quote:
I won't argue with the 85% number, but when you ask people who are "in the system" vs. those that are not, you get very different numbers. People that have their insurance covered by their employer and don't actually use it (i.e. have no medical issues) are invariably satisfied with their health insurance coverage. However when you ask people that do have health issues and do use their health insurance coverage to pay (partially) for health coverage are not 85% satisfied. Far from it.
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