New Law in the U.S. State: Arizona

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

It will be messy at first, but it has to be done. When it's cleared, then we can figure how we want to allow further immigration.

It's immpossible to play the game as it is now, because players are all over the place and nobody knows what team any of them belongs to.

Actually it is very simple. Start fining the employers who employ undocumented workers. When the cost of the fines is greater than the savings they make by paying people under minimum wage, they will stop hiring them.

Take away the lollipop and the ants will disappear.

[samurai007]

Originally Posted by MMM

Actually it is very simple. Start fining the employers who employ undocumented workers. When the cost of the fines is greater than the savings they make by paying people under minimum wage, they will stop hiring them.

Take away the lollipop and the ants will disappear.

First, it doesn't need to be an either-or situation. You can crack down on both employers and illegals and get the job done twice as fast.

Second, jobs are a main reason they come here, but not the only one. 2 others are benefits (welfare, food stamps, etc) and so that their kids can be born American. We'd need to remove those 2 "lollipops" as well. (Hint: the Supreme Court has never ruled on whether the children of illegals who are born here are citizens or not, and the law says that you must be here and "under the jurisdiction of the United States", which IMO should exclude those who sneak in illegally).

Finally, let me point out that the law was amended and clarified... "lawful contact" was changed to “lawful stop, detention or arrest.” And it was reinforced that race may not be used to determine "reasonable suspicion".

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by MMM

“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”
-Martin Luther King Jr.


Just because you have your "papers in order" doesn't mean there isn't an injustice happening here. Wow, what a selfish argument.

Your argument that "that is how they do it in Japan" holds no water to me for a couple reasons.

There are certain freedoms we enjoy in the US that are not law in Japan. Are you willing to give up all those freedoms so we can live under the same laws as Japan?

No, of course not. Japan is an island country that is practically homogeneous. In practical terms, citizenship is based on race in Japan. That is changing little by little, but it has to do with the race of one's father or mother and where one is born.

Simply put, that isn't how we do it in US. If that's how you think we should do it, then that is fine, but I am shocked you would be willing to give up so many of the freedoms we are guaranteed in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Oh good grief.

So the Japanese can racial profile because they the majority of the population of Japan is still Japanese. America can't racial profile by law but would be racist if they did.

Funny how they check Japanese passports entering and leaving Japan from Japanese citizens.

Now insert the UK in the place of Japan. Any different. Lots of races there yet the still ask for ID to prove they are there legally. Are they racists too?

Asking for ID to prove to a law official once stopped is nothing new. Race regardless.

How is the state violiting the Constituition and Bill of Rights and then the fed isn't?

[nobora]

Did you guys see that thing bout shakira going to arizona? she could of been put in jail.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by MMM

“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”
-Martin Luther King Jr.


Just because you have your "papers in order" doesn't mean there isn't an injustice happening here. Wow, what a selfish argument.

I liked how you quoted MLK. It would be nice if you clarified which injustice and where.

The last sentence above has to be written in a drunken stupor.
Selfish?

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by nobora

Did you guys see that thing bout shakira going to arizona? she could of been put in jail.

Yep.

"I'm not an expert on the Constitution but I know the Constitution exists for a reason," Shakira told reporters after meeting with city officials. "It exists to protect human beings, to protect the rights of people living in a nation with or without documents. We're talking about human beings here."

[MMM]

Originally Posted by clintjm

Oh good grief.

So the Japanese can racial profile because they the majority of the population of Japan is still Japanese. America can't racial profile by law but would be racist if they did.

Funny how they check Japanese passports entering and leaving Japan from Japanese citizens.

Now insert the UK in the place of Japan. Any different. Lots of races there yet the still ask for ID to prove they are there legally. Are they racists too?

Asking for ID to prove to a law official once stopped is nothing new. Race regardless.

How is the state violiting the Constituition and Bill of Rights and then the fed isn't?

You have used the word "racist" in just about every post you have made. I don't think I have used it once.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
-Shakespeare

Japan is not America. Japan is homogeneous. America is not. That doesn't make racial profiling right or wrong. I am not saying it is right what they do in Japan, but it is a little more understandable as you can probably count the blond-haired Japanese citizens on two hands. But I already said that.

They check EVERYONE'S passports when they leave the borders. This is true of EVERY COUNTRY. What does that prove? We are talking about state police, legal citizens and on the streets within our borders in the US.

So are you calling for BORDER CHECKS on demand, anytime and anywhere within the borders of the US for all individuals?

That is a pretty extreme attack on freedom and civil rights in America.

Again, it really surprises me you would be supportive of such a thing.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by clintjm

I liked how you quoted MLK. It would be nice if you clarified which injustice and where.

The last sentence above has to be written in a drunken stupor.
Selfish?

Legal citizens engaged in legal activities. A barrier to that is injustice.

Drink up.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by MMM

Legal citizens engaged in legal activities. A barrier to that is injustice.

Drink up.

And we are back to read the bill.
You must be stopped criminaly before being asked for ID to prove legalization.
Thus legal activities may be crossed out. Quote great men appropriatly, not on some half wit notion that cops asking someone to produce a government issued state or federal ID in order to ID illegals.

How is the state violating the Constituition and Bill of Rights and then the fed isn't?

Originally Posted by MMM

I am not saying it is right what they do in Japan, but it is a little more understandable as you can probably count the blond-haired Japanese citizens on two hands. But I already said that.

If they aren't doing it right, then you think they are doing it wrong? Why? Is racial profiling wrong?

They can count them on two hands? When was the last time you have been to Japan and where? There are all nationalities from all countries, in big numbers there including the ones that are asians from other countries and backgrounds that look Japanese.

If it isn't right as you say, then you think they are doing it wrong? Ah... but its understandable... as you say.

All those countries are doing it wrong, but it because they all look the same in general?
Wow I guess all the countries of the world question their illegals with racial profiling then?

[MMM]

Originally Posted by clintjm

And we are back to read the bill.
You must be stopped criminaly before being asked for ID to prove legalization.

If the bill has changed since your original post, then say so. I have defined LEGAL CONTACT about five times in this thread. If that is changed then say so.

Originally Posted by clintjm

Thus legal activities may be crossed out. Quote great men appropriatly, not on some half wit notion that cops asking someone to produce a government issued state or federal ID in order to ID illegals.

If all people are forced to show legal proof of citizenship, then go for it. Make that reduction of freedoms and civil rights universal.

So let's say I am a brown-skinned man and I call the Arizona police to report a break-in in my home.

Do the police that come and investigate the crime have the authority to force me to prove if I am a legal citizen or not?

Originally Posted by clintjm

How is the state violating the Constituition and Bill of Rights and then the fed isn't?

If you are saying the police can only ask people who are suspects of criminal acts, then that changes everything.

Originally Posted by clintjm

If they aren't doing it right, then you think they are doing it wrong? Why? Is racial profiling wrong?

They can count them on two hands? When was the last time you have been to Japan and where? There are all nationalities from all countries, in big numbers there including the ones that are asians from other countries and backgrounds that look Japanese.

I am saying Japan is not America.

In Turkey they cut your hand off for shoplifting. I am not saying that is wrong or right, I am saying that is Turkey. We are not talking about Japan or Turkey. We are talking about the USA.