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05-05-2010, 08:21 PM
I responded to the posts you responded to me, so if I skipped a couple pages that weren't addressing the issues I was bringing up, that is my fault.
Asking for ID to anyone stopped by a police officer on suspicion of committing a crime is normal procedure in any state in the union. What you are saying is this law is meaningless, as it doesn't change anything about police procedures, as they will be doing what they would have been doing anyway.
Because that simply isn't the case. "Reasonable Suspicion" hasn't been defined by ANYONE in terms of this law. It simply says it cannot "solely" be based on race. That solely is a big word and one you have ignored until now. It also says the officer must act. That is the "shall" part of the law regarding the officer's actions. So it is easy to paint situations where this law would be pretty meaningless and everything goes right. Cop pulls over speeder. Speeder has no idea. Cop takes in speeder. Suspects he is illegal because he has no license AND he is dark-skinned and has an accent. [Of course there is the then what...is he jailed? Deported? Goes to trial? What?] However, it is also easy to paint situations where this law does not go well. Cop pulls over speeder. Driver has ID that looks legit, but he has four passengers in the car that claim to be his wife and children, but none of them have ID. They are dark-skinned and have accents. The officer would have to take them in under the same reasonable suspicion of the first situation. If they were white with no accents that "reasonable suspicion" would be unfounded. There's the 800-pound gorilla. Let's say I am a citizen of Arizona. I now have the right to SUE my local law enforcement agency if I believe they are not nabbing enough illegal immigrants in my neighborhood. Tell me, is that state money well spent? 
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05-06-2010, 12:32 AM
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05-06-2010, 12:56 AM
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NBA notes: 'Los Suns' take a stand NBA notes » Phoenix will wear special jerseys in response to 'misguided' immigration law. The Associated Press The Phoenix Suns will wear "Los Suns" on their jerseys in Game 2 of the Western Conference semifinals tonight, owner Robert Sarver said, "to honor our Latino community and the diversity of our league, the state of Arizona, and our nation." The decision to wear the jerseys on the Cinco de Mayo holiday stems from a law passed by the Arizona Legislature and signed by Gov. Jan Brewer that has drawn widespread criticism from Latino organizations and civil rights groups that say it could lead to racial profiling of Hispanics. President Barack Obama has called the law "misguided." The measure makes it a crime under state law to be in the country illegally, and it directs local police to question people about their immigration status and demand to see their documents if there is reason to suspect they are illegal. Sarver came up with the "Los Suns" jersey idea but left it up to the players for the final decision, Suns guard Steve Nash said, and all of them were for it. "I think it's fantastic," Nash said after Tuesday's practice. "I think the law is very misguided. I think it's, unfortunately, to the detriment of our society and our civil liberties. I think it's very important for us to stand up for things we believe in. As a team and as an organization, we have a lot of love and support for all of our fans. The league is very multicultural. We have players from all over the world, and our Latino community here is very strong and important to us."
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05-06-2010, 01:34 AM
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As for why AZ is asking for Federal Training, it's because the Federal govt has been training local law enforcement to arrest illegal aliens since 1996. It's called the 287 (g) program, and for 14 years it has worked rather successfully in 71 law enforcement agencies in 26 states. ICE has trained and certified more than 1,130 state and local officers to enforce immigration law. Since January 2006, the 287(g) program is credited with identifying more than 160,000 potentially removable aliens – mostly at local jails. You see, this is something you won't hear about on the mainstream media... Local law enforcement in more than half the states are already enforcing immigration laws, so claims that state and local law enforcement can't do it, it's unconstitutional, are rather silly because they've already been doing it for 14 years. So Arizona is asking for the standard ICE training that it gives to all the 287 (g) officers. Section 287g Section 287(g): State and Local Immigration Enforcement Efforts Are Working | The Heritage Foundation
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again sorta not -
05-06-2010, 02:04 AM
Established: In 1973 by Joseph Coors (of Coors Beer) and Paul Weyrich
Heritage Foundation's president, Edwin Feulner, who co-founded Belle Haven Consultants, a company with business interests in Malaysia, In 2005, the foundation stated that Malaysia was "moving in the right economic and political direction with some recent bold moves. Think Tank's Ideas Shifted As Malaysia Ties Grew Business Interests Overlapped Policy By Thomas B. Edsall Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, April 17, 2005; Page A01 For years, the Heritage Foundation sharply criticized the autocratic rule of former Malaysian prime minister Mahathir Mohamad, denouncing his anti-Semitism, his jailing of political opponents and his "anti-free market currency controls." Then, late in the summer of 2001, the conservative nonprofit Washington think tank began to change its assessment: Heritage financed an Aug. 30-Sept. 4, 2001, trip to Malaysia for three House members and their spouses. Heritage put on briefings for the congressional delegation titled "Malaysia: Standing Up for Democracy" and "U.S. and Malaysia: Ways to Cooperate in Order to Influence Peace and Stability in Southeast Asia." Heritage's new, pro-Malaysian outlook emerged at the same time a Hong Kong consulting firm co-founded by Edwin J. Feulner, Heritage's president, began representing Malaysian business interests. The for-profit firm, called Belle Haven Consultants, retains Feulner's wife, Linda Feulner, as a "senior adviser." And Belle Haven's chief operating officer, Ken Sheffer, is the former head of Heritage's Asia office and is still on Heritage's payroll as a $75,000-a-year consultant. Now back to the awesomeness of 287 (g) program Local law enforcement backs away from punitive 287g programs By Caroline Fan, Progressive States Network Local communities are increasingly rejecting punitive anti-immigrant law enforcement policies such as 287g from the previous administration. They are walking away from agreements to have local police serve as federal immigration authorities, rejecting both their budgetary costs and the way they damage relationships and trust between police and the communities they serve. The program has been opposed by over 521 organizations, the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, the Government Accountability Office, and the Police Foundation for being out of control, full of abuses, and not actually fulfilling its stated mission of catching criminals. Most recently, two localities in Massachusetts and Middlesex County, NJ, have dropped their controversial agreements with the federal government. The Framingham, Mass. police chief was quite clear on the importance of the local police authority's ability to set their own priorities: "It doesn't benefit the Police Department to engage in deportation and immigration enforcement,'' Framingham's chief, Steven Carl, said yesterday...Carl said he signed up two years ago for the sole purpose of accessing federal computer databases to aid in criminal investigations. He assigned two officers to the program, and said the databases helped, but only two or three people were arrested as a result. He said he decided to withdraw over the summer after federal officials asked him to expand the officers' duties to detaining immigrants for deportation, transporting detainees, and having police testify in immigration cases. Houston's Mayor Bill White has also decided to back off of a proposed 287g agreement after being accepted into the federal program, in another victory for advocates for public safety and immigrant rights. However, he is still open to participating in the Secure Communities program which has less oversight than the 287g program, and is harder to track as it does not necessitate formal Memorandums of Agreement with the federal government. Legislators can take proactive stances against such intrusive and unnecessary policies by passing bills to encourage victims and witnesses of crime, particularly those suffering from domestic violence, to come forward without fear of police inquiry into their immigration status. A Negative Lesson from Maricopa County: Local law enforcement have taken a lesson in what not to do from Arizona's Maricopa County, where one sheriff has flagrantly violated civil rights and liberties under the guise of immigration enforcement. The Department of Homeland Security's newly revised 287g agreement with Maricopa County's infamous Sheriff Joe Arpaio finally curtails his dubious authority to conduct wide-ranging "street sweeps" of entire communities. Arpaio has used his power to terrorize neighborhoods and engaged in massive racial profiling, resulting in a track record of over 2700 lawsuits -- 50 times as many prison-related suits as New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Houston combined -- costing the county over $40 million. Moreover, a local newspaper's investigative series found that Arpaio's single-minded focus on immigration shortchanged the general public safety and resulted in slower response times to emergency calls and decreased arrests. The revised agreement comes shortly after the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC) Southwest Border Task Force, a government body, recently recommended that the federal Department of Homeland Security scale back the 287g initiative that allows local authorities to enforce the country's immigration law.
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05-06-2010, 02:18 AM
If Shakira really believes the constitution protects whoever, reguardless of legal status, then all illigals won't mind serving in the US army for 5 years. They can become naturalized citizens this way, while at the same time defend the Constitution they "value" so highly.
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05-06-2010, 02:27 AM
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$10,000,000 for 15,000 officers comes out to $666.66 PER OFFICER to be trained how to enforce one state law. If one trainer can train 30 cops in a classroom over 10 hours how to enforce this law, that trainer would be paid $2000 an hour. I wonder if they are hiring.
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again sorta not -
05-06-2010, 02:34 AM
You just gave some more 'bs' dude. I hope you are not a recruiter?
Executive Order 13269 - - Expedited Citizenship By Rod Powers, About.com Guide Executive Order 13514 Learn About Executive Order 13514 US Citizenship Law Citizenship Military Pay Navy Army Military Shop Expedited Naturalization of Aliens and Noncitizen Nationals Serving in An Active-Duty Status During the War on Terrorism Military service does not guarranty a person citizenship it reads '...,eligible apply for naturalization'. below is the section pertaining to 13269 which only gives promise of 'eligible. Service During Hostilities : By Executive Order Number 13269, dated July 3, 2002, President Bush declared that all those persons serving honorably in active-duty status in the Armed Forces of the United States at any time on or after September 11, 2001 until a date to be announced, are eligible to apply for naturalization in accordance with the service during hostilities statutory exception in Section 329 of the INA to the naturalization requirements.
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05-07-2010, 12:35 AM
I'm actually for makeing it law, serve 5 years, become a citizen. If citizenship was what they truely wanted.
Right now most illigals are just Mexicans who work up here, don't pay taxes, don't pay Social Security, and send most the money back home, it's why Mexico is makeing such an issue about inforeceing this law, because it's a large part of thier economy. Yes, I said Mexicans..they aren't really "Illigals" in the sense they want to come to America and be American's, because they don't. They aren't illigal imigrants, they are illigal nationals of a foreign power who is quasi unfriendly. They are trying to regain "azetland", the states the US took dureing the Mexican American war, wich include California, Nevada, Texas, New Mexico. It's why they say they "didn't cross the border, the border crossed them". They decided they will just "migrate" up here and take it by devault, because they end up being the primary population. Our southern border needs to be walled off and several combat divisions asigned to guard it, period.
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05-07-2010, 02:18 AM
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The vast majority of those undocumented workers who cross the border illegally are not trying to regain anything other than money. Why has the number increased so greatly? Because NAFTA flooded Mexico with cheap products from China, and industry and agriculture was largely destroyed in Mexico. Walmart is the largest retailer in Mexico. You are right, they are not coming to be citizens, but they are coming to feed their families. So you can call them criminals and dehumanize them if you like, but they are not an invading army, they are victims of a destroyed economy and are trying to find something better. If the shoe was on the other foot, what would you do?
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