New Law in the U.S. State: Arizona

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Paul11

That's because liberal progressives always scream racism as a defensive mechanism and a way to shame others into silence, even thought thier own "compassionate" policies creat more suffering.

Notice he does not address any solid points regarding the law I'v posted, but relies on stories.

Here's a story: I was in full uniform in the district attorney's office. I met a man who looked at me like he was seeing a ghost. The 1000 yard stare straight through me. His sone is a police officer recently murdured by an illegal alien.
Try going to Cop funerals. In arizona the illegals have been killing cops. Organized crime has infiltrated phoenix. 60 % of the homicides in AZ were committed by illegals.

Liberals always shape thier ideas and policy by emotion and no real logic. Why hasn't MMM addressed any of the points regarding the law itself I posed?

Here's a joke: What's a racist? A conserviative who's winning an argument.

Christ almighty, you can't possibly be serious with this statement.

I am not screaming racism I am calling a spade a spade. Did you read your buddy, West's statements? He said sacrifices need to be made by those that look like illegal immigrants.

Notice how I do what? Number your questions and I will address every one I haven't addressed yet. Feel free to address mine, too.

This isn't a black and white issue. I am not the stereotype you want to make me out to be.

I am not defending cop killing, organized crime, drug trafficking or human smuggling. All of those are illegal activities that this law doesn't even address, much less help to enforce.

What I am defending is the right of American citizens to travel and live freely as American citizens.

The question seems to be "What does an illegal alien look like?" and I think you need to answer first "what does an American citizen look like?"

If you are saying American citizens should be presumed to be guilty before innocent in terms of their citizenship, then own up to that.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by MMM

Do you really want to solve the problem of illegal immigration?

I'd like to solve the problems of stereotyping too.
Glad you clarified this time minus the racial stereotyping.

I think most are in agreement with you here about stopping businesses *knowingly* hiring illegals. But the concensus is it is only a part of the problem. Obviously securing the border should be priority number one; which the state can't do and the federal government turns a blind eye.

Yes, maybe stomping on ants at this point, but still better than nothing. Arizona is in a state of emergency and had to act in any way they can within the law.

And the campaign door swings both ways wihle we are on the subject.


A Real problem:
YouTube - TERRORISTS CROSSING MEXICAN-U.S. BORDER

And little surprise from Janet "No security" Napolitano who just has time to comment with Eric Holder on laws they haven't read. Yep you guessed it, she didn't read it either.
FOXNews.com - Napolitano Admits She Hasn't Read Arizona Immigration Law in 'Detail'

[MMM]

Clint, then admit the fact that if we go after the companies that hire undocumented workers, we can greatly reduce the problem at a much lower cost than stamping out ants all day.

Of course I am against illegal organized crime, drug smuggling, human traf...wait, I am repeating myself...I don't need to go into that again, I think.

[West]

I already said that targetting those companies is a good idea, but how do we identify them?

[Paul11]

Originally Posted by MMM

Christ almighty, you can't possibly be serious with this statement.

I am not screaming racism I am calling a spade a spade. Did you read your buddy, West's statements? He said sacrifices need to be made by those that look like illegal immigrants.

Notice how I do what? Number your questions and I will address every one I haven't addressed yet. Feel free to address mine, too.

This isn't a black and white issue. I am not the stereotype you want to make me out to be.

I am not defending cop killing, organized crime, drug trafficking or human smuggling. All of those are illegal activities that this law doesn't even address, much less help to enforce.

What I am defending is the right of American citizens to travel and live freely as American citizens.

The question seems to be "What does an illegal alien look like?" and I think you need to answer first "what does an American citizen look like?"

If you are saying American citizens should be presumed to be guilty before innocent in terms of their citizenship, then own up to that.

1st - Don't attribute West's statements to me. That's a trick and unrealistick.

As a law enforcement professional who lives this stuff everyday, I can again say tou are wrong. This law does address those violations you mention. Most cities in California and Arizona are "sanctuary cities" which harbor illegals. After being arrested they are not reported to ICE - they get out and continue thier associations with crime. If most crime is committed by illegals - then targeting illegals will resolve the issue. The police's hands arer tied and so cannot get a handle on the situation. This law will help them do so.

Again, admit you know nothing about law enforcement and how this law works.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by West

I already said that targetting those companies is a good idea, but how do we identify them?

It is a lot easier than trying to identify illegal aliens. Like I said before, company owners can't run and can't hide. Offer a $100 reward for people that will identify companies that hire undocumented workers.

Sit in front of Home Depot and follow trucks that pick up undocumented workers for day labor.

Go to any farm and ask to see the docs and tax records of all their workers.

Go to any cannery or meat processing plant and ask to see the docs and tax records of all their workers.

If this law is about identifying "suspicious" individuals, then to to the places where these "suspicious" people tend to work.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by MMM

Clint, then admit the fact that if we go after the companies that hire undocumented workers, we can greatly reduce the problem at a much lower cost than stamping out ants all day.

Of course I am against illegal organized crime, drug smuggling, human traf...wait, I am repeating myself...I don't need to go into that again, I think.

Doing something, which the state is, is better than nothing, which is what the federal government is doing, nothing. Sure lets do this too. But you can't just do that alone.

Here are some stunning numbers fresh off the press
FOXNews.com - Cost of Illegal Immigration Rising Rapidly in Arizona, Study Finds

"Arizona’s illegal immigrant population is costing the state’s taxpayers even more than once thought -- a whopping $2.7 billion, according to researchers at the public interest group that helped write the state's new immigration law."

In this case, every bit counts, including sending back to desperate illegals who come to feed off the system.

And I reiterate:
YouTube - TERRORISTS CROSSING MEXICAN-U.S. BORDER

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Paul11

1st - Don't attribute West's statements to me. That's a trick and unrealistick.

As a law enforcement professional who lives this stuff everyday, I can again say tou are wrong. This law does address those violations you mention. Most cities in California and Arizona are "sanctuary cities" which harbor illegals. After being arrested they are not reported to ICE - they get out and continue thier associations with crime. If most crime is committed by illegals - then targeting illegals will resolve the issue. The police's hands arer tied and so cannot get a handle on the situation. This law will help them do so.

Again, admit you know nothing about law enforcement and how this law works.

All the violations you are talking about are extremely illegal and should be addressed with no impunity.

Again, again, again, again, and again, this is not about not punishing criminals.

It is about not punishing American citizens.

I am not talking about law enforcement, but about not stepping on the rights of American citizens to do it. If you are saying we need to step on the rights of American citizens to enforce the law, then I say "no".

I have never attributed your words to West's, what I am saying is that you and him are on the same side, but are saying two very different things.

If you disagree with West, maybe you should address the problems with his statements here, as I have. As I said, I think you are the political voice behind this law, but he is the reality of how the Arizona conservative public wants it to be enforced.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by MMM

As I said, I think you are the political voice behind this law...

Okay. I did chuckle at you a bit about this one.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by clintjm

Okay. I did chuckle at you a bit about this one.

That's fine. You are taking the political line, and West is taking the "man on the street" line. Guess which worries me more.

Feel free to address (or not) all the other points I made about what you said.