New Law in the U.S. State: Arizona - Page 4

Sangetsu · (#31 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMM

It is state-government funded harassment.

If state governments want to reduce the number of illegal immigrants coming into their state there is a simple solution: punish the employers that hire them.

Hire illegals, and pay a fine. Do it again, and be shut down for a week, do it again and lose your business licence.

Instead chasing around those generally doing little more than try to make a better life for themselves and their families, why not take the much easier route to shut down those who hire them.

Instead of the police asking for papers in a police state, it should be the employers.

It's already illegal to hire illegal aliens, and employers already face fines for doing so. Unfortunately, the federal government has done nothing to provide a system to verify information like social security numbers and such, and illegal aliens have no problems getting fake documents. When running a Lexis Nexis check on my brother a few years ago, I was surprised to see that his social security number had been used by 18 other people. I checked myself and found that a person in Chicago had used my social security number to get a job there.

The federal government has failed to provide adequate funding for the imprisonment of tens of thousands of illegal aliens, leaving states to come up with the money to pay for incarceration. Illegal aliens have swamped the emergency rooms of hospitals throughout the country, and since they never pay for their treatment, the taxpayers have to, and the burden of these payments lie with the states, and not the federal government.

Arizona finally said "enough!"

As for making a better life for themselves and their families, wouldn't it make more sense for these people to do something to improve the living conditions in their own countries? If that doesn't happen, the quality of life in these countries will continue to deteriorate, as will the living conditions in America. Illegal immigration has driven down the wages in many fields like carpentry, masonry, and such. Jobs now in 2010 pay less than they did in 1985. Many American citizens no longer do such work because it doesn't pay well enough.

Another problem in the border areas are the schools. In El Paso and other areas, parents often drive their children across the border to attend elementary schools in America. Technically, this is illegal, as the parents and children are not citizens or taxpayers. In El Paso and Hudspeth counties the student populations at the schools are larger than the populations of the towns where the schools are located. Each student costs taxpayers approximately $1100 per month to educate in a public school, yet the parents of these students don't pay a dime. It's funny to go by these schools in the morning and afternoon and see the large numbers of cars lined up out front with Chihuahua license plates. The school administrators turn a bind eye to this problem because they like the extra money the schools get in funding, if non-citizens were barred from attending the public schools, they would lose perhaps 40% of their funding.

Residents in El Paso county had their property taxes increased last year to increase the funding of local hospitals which have been inundated with illegal aliens. Even with this funding, hospitals such as Thomason's are losing millions of dollars per year for unpaid treatments. In Mexico, the president actually hands out fliers to Mexican citizens advising them to cross into America illegally to get treatment for injuries and disease. Fliers are also given to those planning to enter America illegally, showing roads, and places where food and water can be found.

Enough in enough.

Sangetsu · (#32 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMM

Bingo. Government enforced harassment of legal citizens based on skin color.

Read the law: "LAWFUL CONTACT". What is lawful contact? Lawful contact means a cop can question you for any reason. Here it is SUSPICION that you are illegal. As you stated above, most illegals are people of color. There it is. If you are brown, you are suspicious of being an illegal immigrant.

Let's say I am a Latino man born in Phoenix, AZ. Just by the fact that I am a person of color, I am a suspect. Sorry, I don't have a green card. I am not an immigrant. But now I have to have a different level of paperwork ...have to carry my original birth certificate or valid passport around with me ...where my white neighbor doesn't.

Police rights to stop anyone at any time and detain them for not having proof of citizenship on their person.

That's a pretty big one, Clint.

Latinos are not "people of color". I used to be a police officer, and Hispanics on our forms were considered "white/Hispanic".

Police can detain anyone, citizen or not, whether they be white, black, brown, or green for not carrying valid identification. If I pull you over two blocks from your home for speeding, and if you aren't carrying any ID, I can charge you for not carrying a valid ID and detain you until your identification is verified. This rarely happens, as it usually takes only a moment to verify someone's ID over the radio or computer.

MMM · (#33 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by clintjm

Bingo what?
WHERE IS THE SKIN COLOR OR RACE WRITTEN INTO THE BILL?

Of course it is not written into the bill. That would be overtly racist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clintjm

You said it, they can stop ANYONE. It is then NOT Racial!
Are you against the police questioning ANYONE about their immigration status?

There is the problem. Clint. Where is the REASONABLE SUSPICION of a white guy? There is none. If the cops asked a white guy with no accent to show his proof of residency, that would be illegal.

But AS YOU STATED, the majority of illegal immigrants are people of color. Therefore to ask someone of color to show they are legal is really the spirit of the law.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clintjm

I don't see anything in the bill about carrying a passport or birth certificate.
In Arizona a legal/real State ID or State DL is allowed because they actually do background checks unlike some states.

What country are you going to go that doesn't already do this?

Would President Obama be detained by this law?

Many say he has no proof of citizenship as he doesn't have an original birth certificate. Would an out of state license and copy of a birth certificate be good enough?

I live in a state that does not do background checks like Arizona. If I visit Arizona without a passport or original birth certificate, can I be deported?

jrisjerry · (#34 (**permalink**))

New laws will be release in the future, what we need is to comply with it

MMM · (#35 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

It's already illegal to hire illegal aliens, and employers already face fines for doing so. Unfortunately, the federal government has done nothing to provide a system to verify information like social security numbers and such, and illegal aliens have no problems getting fake documents. When running a Lexis Nexis check on my brother a few years ago, I was surprised to see that his social security number had been used by 18 other people. I checked myself and found that a person in Chicago had used my social security number to get a job there.

.

It might be a hint to employers when they pay people well below minimum wage and house them in sub-human conditions and don't get any complaints from their employees that they MIGHT be illegal.

Get real. Let's not pretend that the employers of millions of undocumented workers in the US are doing their damnedest to only hire legal workers.

Just because the law is not well enforced (hmm...wonder why) doesn't mean it is OK to break it...or does it?

Again, take away the lollipop and the ants disappear. It's a lot easier and cheaper than trying to clear away the ants...especially knowing that get rid of this nest and there is another nest waiting to get to that lollipop. An unlimited supply.

Now the law enforcement agencies of Arizona want the federal gov't to pay for the training of their 15,000 officers. So they want to use my tax dollars to pay for this awful law? I don't think so. And why is Arizona passing laws it can't pay for?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

Latinos are not "people of color". I used to be a police officer, and Hispanics on our forms were considered "white/Hispanic".

Police can detain anyone, citizen or not, whether they be white, black, brown, or green for not carrying valid identification. If I pull you over two blocks from your home for speeding, and if you aren't carrying any ID, I can charge you for not carrying a valid ID and detain you until your identification is verified. This rarely happens, as it usually takes only a moment to verify someone's ID over the radio or computer.

Ask Latinos if they are people of color. Invariably the answer will be "Yes".

I agree police can detain anyone. That's the problem with THIS law, as it isn't about anyone, but anyone with a REASONABLE SUSPICION of being an illegal immigrant. Have an accent? Migrant farm worker? Have brown skin? Ride in the back of a pickup? REASONABLE SUSPICION by LAWFUL CONTACT. Like you said, a cop can pull anyone over.

manganimefan227 · (#36 (**permalink**))

Here's a question to bring up: What do you think were the good points these people thought of as benefits for this law? Why WOULD this be good, for who? Or what?

EDIT: Hm? Me? Ummm . . .My guess is to prevent drug smuggling . . .

MMM · (#37 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by manganimefan227

Here's a question to bring up: What do you think were the good points these people thought of as benefits for this law? Why WOULD this be good, for who? Or what?

The fundamental intention of the law is to have fewer illegal aliens in Arizona. That's fine.

Unfortunately the vague wording of the law makes LEGAL aliens and LEGAL citizens targets as well.

This is the problem, and I am surprised some of the most conservative and small-government, right-protectors would find anything good about a law that takes rights away and allows state harassment of legal immigrants and natural-born citizens.

nicoleb · (#38 (**permalink**))

I couldn't be happier with this, personally. Arizona should be congratulated. Illegal immigration has been a huge problem in the US, and, particularly in a financial bind like the one it's in now, America can't afford to continue to let non-citizens use its hospitals and schools. I find it amusing that Obama calls Arizona's efforts "misguided." They're doing more to solve the problem than he or any other president has done so far. Not only that, but Obama and many Americans in politics are far too soft with foreigners in general. I'm not against immigration if it's legal, but Obama is actually for the opinion that AMERICANS should learn SPANISH, and that Mexican immigrants, legal or not, should NOT have to learn English. That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. If you move into a country, you speak its language, plain and simple. I'd love to see what would happen if an American tried to go to Mexico and didn't bother to learn to speak Spanish.

But I'm getting off-topic here. My thoughts: Arizona, you are awesome. I hope the rest of America will follow Arizona's example and stop letting themselves be walked all over. I don't even LIVE in America, yet the way they have been letting illegal immigrants walk all over them has been annoying me constantly. Someone did a rant online about it, responding to all those who argue that illegal immigrants "just want a better life." He basically said that, if middle-class Americans tried to climb over a rich person's fence and swim in his pool, eat his food, etc., they wouldn't get any sympathy. Illegal immigrants in America are basically the same thing; they climb over middle-class Americans' fences and steal their things, and they're not in any life-threatening danger like refugees. It's infuriating. Three cheers for Arizona!

MMM · (#39 (**permalink**))

Quote: