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04-30-2010, 01:48 AM
I have not read through all the posts, so this may have been posted already, but I do not see a problem with this law. I have to have my alien registration card, or passport on me at ALL TIMES in Japan, or face up to a $2000.00 fine. Now I do think the fine is a bit steep, but I see no problem with carrying my ID around with me. Could I be racially profiled, well being a white-guy yeah, that would probably be the first hint to the cops that I am not from Japan. I do not think this law is set up to be racist though, it is to protect Japan from the ill effects of having illegals running around. I do not see how this is really that different than the law in Arizona. Yes, a certain group of people tend to be the ones that are going to be affected by this law, but I do not see any other way to deal with this. How would one suppose Japan deal with this, without "racial profiling"? There is nothing wrong with demanding that non-citizens carry around a form of ID on them.
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04-30-2010, 01:58 AM
Quote:
Using my words and inserting a race isn't making a point well. It simply becomes a bigoted statement. Posting the example like that does not lead to a good result. That is why I stated "if" that was your intention. You are right that most illegals just come here to work and better themselves and usually the only law they broke was coming to the states illegally. This doesn't make them bad people. But you have to remember why a country has borders and immigration laws in the first place. A country can not sustain importing an impoverished people and sometimes the crime that comes with it at a certain rate at one time. This isn't tolerated in any sovereign nation around the world nor is it in the states. 2. An illegal immigrant in any place of the world can be of any race. "Illegal immigrant" isn't a race. This new law doesn't even go as far as what can be done any other place in the world: Ask for ID without cause. Go to any country, including Mexico, and a law enforcement officer can ask you for your ID or even legalization ID if you physically, verbally, culturally apparent you are of the country's race; no matter what, no matter what race; and it is obvious in most cases you will be identified and stopped because of your race if they are suspected. I.e. A Japanese can be stopped in Japan by police and asked for ID because he or she may look of another Asian heritage which has a high population of being in the country illegally. In the AZ case, there is still lawful contact required. You have to be stopped for a reason that falls under suspicious behavior that does not include suspicion of being an illegal. So AZ can't even do what the rest of the world does: stop you juston the grounds of suspicion of being illegal. Is the rest of the world just racists then? Why is this any different than the US federal border agent asking for ID and proof of being in the legally; which they CAN do now. How is this any different than any other country? 3. The work you describe is done by citizens and documented workers throughout the nation. If it was possible to get rid of the illegals in the south west as you describe, the company would then have to pay a living wage to the legal residents in order to get workers. This is another false hood that only illegals will do these jobs as you can see from history and in the states (and around the world) today. I doubt a person with a "chemical" degree would take that job too. He or she would eventually move if they couldn't find work. Maybe they would take a minimum wage job doing whatever until they find work. It happens every day. In most states where there are low populations of illegals, this work still gets done. The problem in states like Arizona, illegals will work for whatever the boss will pay them thus allowing them to lower the cost to the consumer against the the up and up company. To keep up the up and up company has to lower wage to its workers that need to pay state and federal income and or property taxes; illegals in some cases can by pass this. Thus the legal resident can not make a living wage in this environment. Sometimes the company may get duped. Yes all classes need each other, but to paint a picture that only illegals will do the low class work and citizens or legal residents won't is falsehood. Citizens and legal residents in every country do this work, including in the states. If all illegals went back to their country today, the work would get done just as it always has. Sure companies would have to pay more to get legal workers and the cost to the consumer would change, but it would stabilize to a national level at some point. In the end the "for a better life" argument you bring comes down to unfortunate fact life just isn't fair and some people are born holding the short end of the stick.
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04-30-2010, 02:13 AM
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Its a federal law that now state law enforcement can now omg "ask" after you have been stopped. SURE, there is going to be "abuse" by some law enforcement that do what every other law enforcement in the world do in their country. In this event, an AZ law enforcement official could face punishment for breaking the law. I can't wait until it is illegal to racially profile a bank robber or such over the police radio so the police will know what the suspect may look like. Having a witness describe the suspect so the law can attempt to capture them IS racial profiling.
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04-30-2010, 09:56 AM
A country without borders is not a country. Not all the illegal immigrants we get in America are honest, hardworking people. Many of them are criminals in their native countries, and came to America to flee justice at home. Perhaps this explains why nearly 25% of California's prison population is made up of illegal aliens. Nationwide, about 600,000 illegal aliens are imprisoned. More than 90% of arrest warrants for murder in Los Angeles are issued against illegal aliens. Illegal immigrants make up about 3% of the US population, but they make up about 17% of the prison population nationwide.
About 60% of illegal aliens working in America work for cash, and pay no taxes. The majority of money earned by illegal immigrants is not spent in America, but is remitted to their families in their home countries. This does little to help the economies in the areas where illegal aliens work and live. Regardless of their immigration status, the vast majority of illegal aliens do not have a high school level education, and as such, generally consume more in benefits than they pay in taxes. The children of illegal aliens who are naturalized American citizens have the highest high school drop out rate of any race or class of people in America, and as such, they are likely to consume more in government benefits in their lifetimes than they contribute in taxes. I remember a place called Minnie Street in Santa Ana California where I got my first experience working in law enforcement. Minnie Street consisted of blocks upon blocks of apartment buildings which primarily housed illegal immigrants from Mexico and other Central American countries. The people who lived there worked hard enough, but they were poor, barely literate (even in Spanish), and appallingly dirty. The street smelled of urine (though the toilets in the buildings worked fine, the people who lived there brought the third-world habit of urinating in the streets to America with them), trash was always strewn about, and there were constant problems with drunks. The area around this neighborhood had the highest number of drunk driving accidents and arrests of any other in Orange Country. Car thefts in the surrounding neighborhoods also occurred at the highest rates in the country. The cars were seldom recovered as most were driven into Mexico, where it is a simple enough process to bribe an official to get a vehicle title. Illegal aliens in this neighborhood were never arrested for immigration violations, county policies forbade officers from asking about the immigration status of any person. They could be arrested for a misdemeanor crime (one of which is drunk driving), after which they would serve their time in the country jail and be released. Only those convicted of felonies (murder, attempted murder, ADW, drug trafficking, or rape) could be reported to immigration. Hundreds of such arrests occurred yearly (from this single neighborhood), but for every person arrested/convicted/deported, 2 or 3 more would come to replace him, and often the person deported would return again only to commit more crimes. I would not fault illegal immigrants if they worked hard, lived clean, and tried to elevate themselves to the level of the country they have come to. But with very few exceptions, they don't try, and the neighborhoods in which they live soon resemble the dirty, crime-ridden slums they left behind in their home countries. Dirty sheets hang in the windows instead of curtains, dirty diapers are thrown out in the alleys and parking lots, the sidewalks glisten with bits of glass from broken beer bottles, the air stinks of urine, broken down cars are parted out on the sides of the streets, and bars begin appearing on the windows of the houses in the surrounding neighborhoods. Here is an excerpt written in 2005 by the GAO regarded illegal aliens incarcerated in US prisons: “They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. One arrest incident may include multiple offenses, a fact that explains why there are nearly one and half times more offenses than arrests. Almost all of these illegal aliens were arrested for more than 1 offense. Slightly more than half of the 55,322 illegal aliens had between 2 and 10 offenses. About 45 percent of all offenses were drug or immigration offenses. About 15 percent were property-related offenses such as burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft and property damage. About 12 percent were for violent offenses such as murder, robbery, assault, and sex-related crimes. The balance was for such other offenses as traffic violations, including driving under the influence; fraud — including forgery and counterfeiting; weapons violations; and obstruction of justice. Eighty percent of all arrests occurred in three states — California, Texas, and Arizona. Specifically, about 58 percent of all arrests occurred in California, 14 percent in Texas, and 8 percent in Arizona.” The negative aspects of illegal immigration far outweigh any positive benefit from it, if there can be any benefit when any illegal alien is fundamentally a criminal.
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04-30-2010, 03:55 PM
The crux of the problem with the AZ law is that "reasonable suspicion" and that they are attempt to seize jurisdiction over a border that is not entirely the border of their state.
The U.S. - Mexico border is federal jurisdiction because it extends across more than one state, not just AZ. They have no right whatsoever to enforce the border laws between Mexico and CA, Mexico and NM or Mexico and Texas. To detain anyone with justification they should be required to prove that not only that the person did not have a legal right to cross the Mexican border, but that they crossed it directly into AZ. If this person is walking down a street in Phoenix there is absolutely no way one could REASONABLY suspect that they crossed into the U.S. 160 miles south of town. Experience and records will prove that local law enforcement will however stop a darker brown skinned person on the streets of Phoenix more often than a light skinned Anglo for suspicion of criminal action. Just because the law does not endorse racial profiling, does not mean that it is not already a de facto practice and this law will make it even more of a common practice. I would hate to be a Native American who left the res to go shopping in a major AZ city these days. Maybe the AZ law should be applied equally to anglos in their state. Force everyone within their juridsdiction to provide passports to prove they belong there unless the live on a Reservation. Something tells me the supporters of this law would do their best to rescind it quickly once put through that hassle. As for an officer being able to stop anyone at anytime.... he better be able to justify it well if the person was simply walking down the street. There is no requirement for ID just to do that. Now if I get behind the wheel of a car, that changes. And carrying ID is definitely a good practice, but within the borders of the U.S. it is not a requirement unless you are NOT a citizen.  Only an open mind and open heart can be filled with life. ********************* Find your voice; silence will not protect you.
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again sorta not -
04-30-2010, 04:09 PM
you might want to check your figures dude- there is no 600,000 illegal aliens or whatever number mentioned in any GAO report in any prison; US or otherwise.
U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) lists total number of US prison population was 2,304,115 were incarcerated in U.S. prisons and jails in 2008. Excerpt form GAO report you have above was widely circulated in US media. This was from Ed Koch article printed in WSJ,NYT other publications notice date of report and date of publication- Imprisoned Illegal Aliens Should Be Deported Monday, August 31, 2009 4:25 PM By: Ed Koch (x mayor of New York City) I have a proposal which I hope the Obama administration will consider and implement. Immediately, or as soon as possible, the United States should deport all illegal aliens who are in federal and state prisons, and in our municipal jails, to their countries of origin. In 2005, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) issued a report on the number of illegal aliens incarcerated in the United States. The GAO reported that the number of convicted criminal aliens incarcerated in federal prison on Dec. 27, 2003 was 46,063, and the number incarcerated in state prisons and local jails was 262,105. *******
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sorta not again, again -
05-01-2010, 08:41 PM
It's amazing how the 'slow motion train wreck' who is also the co-author of Arizonas newly passed immigration law ( SB1070) state senator Russell Pearce district 18 can go before the unavoidable happens.
A short update on Arizonas finest, enjoy! Russell Pearce career as a law enforcement officer is legendary. A sheriff's deputy for 23 years, (Chief Deputy/Under Sheriff) A judge North Mesa Justice Court for one year, director for the Governor's Office of Highway safety in 1994 and in 1995 worked as a director for the Arizona Motor Vehicle Division * before being elected as a state representative, he says that the half-million mostly Mexican illegal immigrants in Arizona are breaking the law simply by living there. The Man Behind Arizona's Toughest Immigrant Laws by Ted Robbins NPR may1,2010 - Bill Konopnicki, another Morman Republican state representative in Arizona, says that Russell Pearce is sincere. "I think Rep. Pearce really genuinely believes what he's doing is the correct thing ... and it's hard to argue against that position," he says. He disagrees with his colleague's position, however. There's little evidence that illegal immigrants commit more crime than the rest of the population, he says, adding that the Mormon Church calls for compassion toward the stranger. Opponents say Russell Pearce is a racist — a charge he vehemently denies. A devout Mormon, he says he is simply committed to the church's command for obedience to the law. "I believe in the rule of law …'I've always believed in the rule of law. we're a nation of law"," Russell Pearce. In 1995, Pearce became the Director of the Arizona Motor Vehicle Division. Pearce was fired from that position in 1999 by then Arizona Department of Transportation Director Mary Peters after an investigation revealed that Pearce and two underlings had tampered with a Tucson woman's driving record. "This is someone who obviously has no problem with handling police officers legal powers -- and no problem with a little procedural abuse along the way". The Arizona Republic, East Valley Tribune  Aug. 11, 2008 12:00 AM The Arizona Republic Arizona Local News - Phoenix Arizona News - Breaking News - azcentral.com excerpt: During the whacky LD 18 election campaign here in Arizona past bon mots' - featured the states biggest newspaper the Arizona Republic sticking up for Russell Pearce against a flyer that eluded to Russell Pearce being a alleged 'wife beater'. translation: the Ariz Republic does'nt think a canidate who knocked his wife around over 30yrs ago should have to defend himself. The mailer ( flyer) features details from a divorce petition filed by Russell Pearce's wife, LuAnne Pearce, in 1980. In it, LuAnne Pearce stated that her husband physically attacked her. The petition was later withdrawn, and the couple remains married. Domestic violence legislation even back in 80's, even back in Arizona have come a longway. And today Russell Pearce is in the forefront of 'traditional family values' and marriage. A petition for dissolution of marriage filed back in 1980 by Pearce's wife of over 30 years LuAnne. The document is unremarkable, save for one, line: "Further, the husband, RUSSELL KEITH PEARCE, is possessed of a violent temper, and has from time to time hit and shoved the wife, the last time being on February 3 [1980], when he grabbed the wife by the throat and threw her down." (above legal document was signed by and notarized, Mrs. Russell Pearce. on file Superior Court of the state of Arizona in and for the county of Maricopa) Attorney E. Evans Farnsworth prepared the document back in 1980 while with the Mesa law firm Smith, Riggs, Buckley and Farnsworth. Now resides as pro-tem judge in Chandler, Ariz. If this raised eyebrows the past Maricopa County politics should be viewed more closely with a functional gasmask. Russell Pearce currently carries water for Sheriff Joe Arpaio, and Arpaio has endorsed Pearce's campaign for the state Senate seat vacated by Republican crazy lady Karen Johnson. If you'll recall, four years ago, Arpaio’s henchmen had no problem digging up a bogus 30-year-old rape allegation against his then-Republican primary opponent and current general election contender Dan Saban. USA Today Arizona lawmaker circulated white separatist e-mail Updated 10/12/2006 5:19 PM ET PHOENIX (AP) — A state lawmaker who wants to reinstate a 1950s federal deportation program known as "Operation Wetback" is under fire again for sending supporters information from a white separatist group. Republican Rep. Russell Pearce has apologized for e-mailing the article from the West Virginia-based National Alliance. Pearce apologized, but never could explain why he was reading material from the National Alliance . ( Neo Nazi White Supremist group )
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05-01-2010, 09:50 PM
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Thanks again, dude, for doing what the "left" is doing best. It is WW2 Nazi Germany again right? Despite Russel's checkered past, and for whatever part he may of had is the actual crafting of 1070, it is simply a good piece of legislation. And no left talking head has yet to find something they can really take the bill to task on. Read the bill. Take a step out of country when you can and try to call the law official, who stops you to see ID for whatever reason, a racists and see how it goes. The state is doing exactly what the federal government *can* and should be doing now.
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mow your own lawn -
05-01-2010, 11:12 PM
relax dude.
..., and hug your favorite deputy. Maybe you both could hook-up at your local domestic violence counseling group? ...,you both could share techniques on how not 'to throw your insignificat other down a flight of stairs' over a warm cup of chocolate and donuts. 
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05-01-2010, 11:43 PM
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It is obvious you have lost the argument when you make a comparison of me, who you don't know, to someone who domestically abused his wife. Try facts with your arguments instead of fictitious and ridiculous comparisons. Don't do what the media and the a majority of lefties are doing in comparing this to Nazism. It is what has been done since day one with this. Let the US join the rest of the world in securing their borders. Let the US join the rest of the world in enforcing their laws, including asking for proof that one is supposed to be within that sovereign nation. Let the US enforce their existing Federal laws and mirrored State Laws. Join the majority of citizens and legalized immigrants to stop illegal immigration. You avoid the facts put before you. Read the bill.
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