New Law in the U.S. State: Arizona

[fluffy0000]

let the hot air out of the room, dude. relax your sphincter muscles.

[SSJup81]

I'm one of those who is against this law, because it's bordering on the line of racial profiling. Yes, something needs to be done, but I don't feel this is it. What about the corrupt police officers out there? I doubt they'll go around stopping white people to see if they're "legal" or not. Seems this immigration mess is going to target Latin Americans and Mexicans, and I just find it unfair.

I don't have a problem with people carrying around a proper ID card, but I have a problem with cops maybe randomly stopping people based solely on their skin color and making assumptions that said person is an illegal based on that alone. Seems it'd be too easy for cops to abuse that power.

[YukisUke]

In my opinion, this new law is just going to give police officers a bogus reason to check anybody they suspect of being in the country illegally. Just another brand of racial profiling.

[NishiHime]

I'm an attorney & human rights activist & I participated this Saturday in the Anti-Arizona and Pro-Immigration rallies here in NYC at both Foley Square & Union Square.

Arizona's law does nothing but encourage discrimination, racism & racial profiling - the bottom line is its overly broad & unconstitutional.

There's nothing wrong with controlling our borders and ensuring documented aliens enter - but we are a country founded on immigration - the Statute of Liberty beckons those who have been persecuted, hungry, weak & suffering. Our citizens have forgotten what it is like to suffer & need/seek the refuge of a safe country. Our fellow American citizens in rural & border parts of Arizona are jealous of their own rights and "haves" and do not wish to share or help those who they deem less-worthy.

There will come a time when these same people will suffer & seek help from other nations.

The human condition is universal. This isn't just about racism or racial profiling, but about selfishly seeking to keep what's ours, ours, & away from the "others."

- Nishi

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by NishiHime

I'm an attorney & human rights activist & I participated this Saturday in the Anti-Arizona and Pro-Immigration rallies here in NYC at both Foley Square & Union Square.

Arizona's law does nothing but encourage discrimination, racism & racial profiling - the bottom line is its overly broad & unconstitutional.

As an attorney, which section or page number of the 1077 bill violates which part of the consititution?
Also while you are at it, which section or page number of 1077 encourages discrimination, racism and racial profiling? Can you tell me one country that doesn't give their law enforcement the power to ask a person for ID to see who they are and if they are allowed to be in that place legally?

Originally Posted by NishiHime

There's nothing wrong with controlling our borders and ensuring documented aliens enter - but we are a country founded on immigration - the Statute of Liberty beckons those who have been persecuted, hungry, weak & suffering.

The "but" in your sentence contradicts the first part and the second part of your sentence. You can't control borders and ensure documented aliens while allowing illegals of any race to continue to roam about the country. The U.S. is a country of immigrants. That doesn't negate the law of being a soveign nation by letting whomever come in as they please.

Originally Posted by NishiHime

Our citizens have forgotten what it is like to suffer & need/seek the refuge of a safe country. Our fellow American citizens in rural & border parts of Arizona are jealous of their own rights and "haves" and do not wish to share or help those who they deem less-worthy.

Really? We have forgotten?
You really have no clue.
I'm sick and tired of people telling us how selfish the U.S. and unwilling to share and that we need to sacrifice more. We have done more for the world now and throughout history in humanitarian aid and immigration to our nation than any other nation on the planet.

Originally Posted by NishiHime

There will come a time when these same people will suffer & seek help from other nations.

The human condition is universal. This isn't just about racism or racial profiling, but about selfishly seeking to keep what's ours, ours, & away from the "others."

- Nishi

yes... yes...Humans, Americans, like all countries that don't allow illegal immigration and keep their borders tightly secured and ask for ID, are selfishly keeping there soveriegn land, economy etc. to theirselves.

There is a serious issue on our south west border. America is not an anti-immigrant nation; quite the opposite. But the law, like any other country must be upheld, to secure our borders. The laws are there for a reason. If those laws are violated, then you see the decay of a nation slowly but surely: Economically and Criminally.

Illegals can range from Chinese, to Mexican, to Austrailian, to any race of group.
There is a federal law to do the same thing Arizona is having to do locally. The law doesn't differ at all from the federal law; there just isn't enough federal law enforcement to do the job now. Arizona had to take action. I sleep well know that this bill isn't going anywhere.

[fluffy0000]

Ex-homeland chief uncomfortable with Arizona law
Tue Apr 27 2010, API
Former Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge says he's uncomfortable with Arizona's new immigration law, saying it allows police to question people without probable cause.

In United States criminal law, probable cause is the standard by which a police officer has the authority to make an arrest, conduct a personal or property search, or to obtain a warrant for arrest.

The Fourth Amendment of the United States Consitution:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[kunitokotachi]

This term "Pro-Immigration" is very deceptive. Actually, those who are protesting are in favor of illegal immigration. Nobody has a problem with immigration, but people need to come here the proper way. It is disrespectful to those who applied. Mexico isn't the only country in the world with those suffering and we cannot bring everyone here. We need to decide how many people we will let immigrate every year from each country and decide for what purpose they will be here.

I think it is actually racist to fight for someone or a group of people just because they look the same as you. I know plenty of people like this. It just makes them look foolish. You never stick up for someone just because they look like you, you stick up for them because they are right. Coming here illegally isn't right.

[kunitokotachi]

Also, I would like to see Fluffy0000's research on the impact of illegals and Clintjm's numbers on the number of projected illegals in Arizona and the crime statistics.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by kunitokotachi

Also, I would like to see Fluffy0000's research on the impact of illegals and Clintjm's numbers on the number of projected
illegals in Arizona and the crime statistics.

Of course.
I reference what Sangetsu referenced:
http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...tml#post810349

"Here is an excerpt written in 2005 by the GAO regarded illegal aliens incarcerated in US prisons: “They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. One arrest incident may include multiple offenses, a fact that explains why there are nearly one and half times more offenses than arrests. Almost all of these illegal aliens were arrested for more than 1 offense. Slightly more than half of the 55,322 illegal aliens had between 2 and 10 offenses. About 45 percent of all offenses were drug or immigration offenses. About 15 percent were property-related offenses such as burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft and property damage. About 12 percent were for violent offenses such as murder, robbery, assault, and sex-related crimes. The balance was for such other offenses as traffic violations, including driving under the influence; fraud — including forgery and counterfeiting; weapons violations; and obstruction of justice. Eighty percent of all arrests occurred in three states — California, Texas, and Arizona. Specifically, about 58 percent of all arrests occurred in California, 14 percent in Texas, and 8 percent in Arizona.”

=================================================


Not every illegal is a criminal, aside from being here illegally. But having impoverished people flood the country without going through the process results in these statistics.

There are an estimated 460,000 illegals in Arizona alone. 30 million within the nation.

Again the U.S. is the most open nation in the world for immigrants as we are a nation of them; but the U.S. can not sustain itself by not following the laws on the amounts of legal immigrants we can sustain at one time. Illegals violate this law and make it more difficult for us to sustain or increase the amount of legal immigrants we can allow into the nation.

Some people in this thread seem to think we should ignore the rule of law and simply overlook that fact that people are coming here illegally.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by fluffy0000

Ex-homeland chief uncomfortable with Arizona law
Tue Apr 27 2010, API
Former Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge says he's uncomfortable with Arizona's new immigration law, saying it allows police to question people without probable cause.

In United States criminal law, probable cause is the standard by which a police officer has the authority to make an arrest, conduct a personal or property search, or to obtain a warrant for arrest.

The Fourth Amendment of the United States Consitution:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Tom Ridge is incorrect and he obviously didn't read the bill. The bill clearly states that the to question someone, they must have a. Lawful Contact and once A. has been satisfied b. suspicious, without the use of race, of being in the country illegally. He obviously did little to secure the border just as Janet "The system worked" Napolitano did little when she was in Arizona and now.

The fourth amendment has nothing to do with this mirrored federal law Arizona has put on the books. Law enforcement, in any country, must be able to identify a subject that has been legally stopped.

Try again.
Read the bill. Quote from the bill.

The reason this law hasn't been stomped out is because it is lawful.

To all:

If the US is against illegal immigration then it should amend the constitution and throw out existing law. We are not, so unless someone has a better idea how to remove 30 million illegals, and see no where else to start than this solid Arizona law.

Mind you, it is only a start. But seriously, if we can't have state or federal government simply ask for proof that someone is a citizen, we will never end this problem and the crime this importing of poverty, which breeds crime, at an unregulated rate the economy will continue to sink the US into oblivion. Yes the tired, hungry and impoverished do have the opportunity to come. That is what America is all about. But not at an unregulated rate and only if you play by the immigration laws. It is only fair to the nation.