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again do the math -
05-03-2010, 09:51 PM
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Monday, August 31, 2009 4:25 PM By: Ed Koch (x mayor of New York City) I have a proposal which I hope the Obama administration will consider and implement. Immediately, or as soon as possible, the United States should deport all illegal aliens who are in federal and state prisons, and in our municipal jails, to their countries of origin. In 2005, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) issued a report on the number of illegal aliens incarcerated in the United States. The GAO reported that the number of convicted criminal aliens incarcerated in federal prison on Dec. 27, 2003 was 46,063, and the number incarcerated in state prisons and local jails was 262,105. ******* 
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05-03-2010, 10:11 PM
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Here is the 2005 report I believe Sangetsu was quoting: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf With an estimated 7 million illegals in 2000 nationwide as the report states. Now with an estimated 30 million in 2010. I can imagine the number to go up to match what Sangetsu's numbers are. I doubt it has gone down. It is not a far fetched number being 262,105 in Dec of 2003 and this being 2010. It could be more than 600k. In any case there is an obvious problem. The result of too much impoverished desperate individuals when an area can't sustain them. This is why we have borders. This is why we have an immigration process.
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nice try -
05-03-2010, 10:42 PM
You sir are obviously high. No GAO report from any year or on this planet supports a number near 600,000 imprisoned illegal aliens. No GAO report from any year but possibly your over-worked imagination can conjure up this or any number close to this number.
Back to reality and put the pipe down dude. Read more: GOP worries Arizona immigration law could hurt party by Kasie Hunt - Apr. 30, 2010 04:35 PM POLITICO.COM Arizona's immigration law has been an immediate hit with the Republican base, but some of the party's top strategists and rising stars worry that the harsh crackdown may do long-term damage to the GOP in the eyes of America's Hispanic population. From Marco Rubio to Jeb Bush to Texas Gov. Rick Perry, Republicans who represent heavily Hispanic states have been vocal in their criticism of the Arizona law, saying it overreaches. Even Gov. Bob McDonnell of Virginia, a conservative hero for his win last fall, has questioned the law. And the party's long-term thinkers worry that the Arizona law is merely a quick political fix which may create a permanent rift with the fastest growing segment of the U.S. electorate. "It's like a virus that you get and you don't feel like you're unhealthy for the first few days, but after that you have a fever and you're really sick," says Matthew Dowd, former President George W. Bush's chief strategist in 2004. "You can't win a national election and you can't win certain states without the Latino vote. And Republicans already had a problem." "I think there is going to be some constitutional problems with the bill," top Bush strategist Karl Rove said during a stop on his book tour. "I wished they hadn't passed it, in a way." "I have concerns with portions of the law passed in Arizona and believe it would not be the right direction for Texas," Perry said earlier this week. Jeb Bush was also blunt: "I don't think this is the proper approach." The already burning issue will escalate this weekend with protests around the country, including one in Los Angeles where police are preparing for a crowd of 100,000. Yet polls show Arizona's law is popular, even with independents, and it's given Republican Gov. Jan Brewer a boost in the polls. In September she trailed her likely Democratic opponent, state Attorney General Terry Goddard, by 3 points with white voters. Now she leads him by 8 points with whites. But Goddard has increased his lead with Hispanics from 20 points to 46. Arizona has far more white voters than it does Hispanic voters—for now – so the immigration law may not have an immediate impact on the election. But the long term demographic outlook for Republicans and the Hispanic vote is troubling for the GOP. Ninety percent of Hispanics under 18 in Arizona are U.S. citizens, and the explosive growth of the Hispanic population this decade has been driven by U.S. births. That's a switch from the 1990s, when most of the Hispanic population's increase was due to non-citizen immigration. "This law and potential copy cat laws have the ability to seal the fate of the Republican Party with Hispanics in the exact same way that the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act did with African Americans," said Matt Barreto, a pollster for Latino Decisions and an adjunct political science professor at the University of Washington. In Florida, Senate candidate Rubio's extremely calibrated response showed the fine line Republicans have to walk on this issue. Rubio is young, bilingual, Cuban-born and running to the right of Republican-turned-independent Charlie Crist. And according to a new SurveyUSA poll, 82 percent of Florida Republicans who have heard about Arizona's law agree with it—and 81 percent think Florida should pass a similar measure. So Rubio has his sound bite ready on amnesty—"I hope Congress…will use the Arizona legislation not as an excuse to try and jam through amnesty legislation," he said. But he is terribly uncomfortable with the racial profiling he sees in the Arizona bill. "I do have concerns about this legislation," Rubio said, pointing out that the law could "unreasonably single out people who are here legally, including many American citizens." Rubio's logic recognizes Florida's changing demographics—and acknowledges that Obama tilted the state in Democrats' favor in 2008 largely because of the non-Cuban Hispanic vote. It's a lesson California learned in the 1990s when state legislators passed and then-Gov. Pete Wilson signed Proposition 187, a law that required police officers to verify and report the immigration status of anyone who was arrested and denied a litany of basic services to anyone in the country illegally. While most Republicans dismiss claims that it hurt the party, chalking Democratic gains up to demographic changes, the issue is still radioactive in California. Democrats are calling on Republican Meg Whitman to dismiss Wilson, who is now chairing her campaign for governor.
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05-03-2010, 11:18 PM
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It is frankly shameful that this issue is being politicized in order to get party votes. I just want secure borders, and illegals to get in line like everyone else if they want to immigrate. Is that asking too much? The one few things the US government is REALLY responsible for, it is failing to do at all levels. 600K imprisoned is not a far fetched number with est 7 million illegals in 2000 and est 270k imprisoned in 2003. Even 270K out of 7 million is pretty bad. 270K are convicted and imprisoned only. Are you trying to argue the fact that illegal immigration isn't a problem? If we fail to secure our borders, more legals and citizens will be at the hand of crime as a result of illegal immigration. Do you are argue this? No matter how hard you try, you are not going to convince anyone that illegal immigration is good for the states, as well as any other country. You are avoiding the questions and facts put before you. Though you may try with childish insults or comparisons, that you have done throughout this thread, you fail to make a valid point.
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05-03-2010, 11:56 PM
The only thing this law does is allow Arizona police to enforce FEDERAL LAW that's allready on the book. It's that simple. Besides, you have to "show your papers" in 42 states allready, so what's the beef here? I mean really, guess what happens if you have no ID in Iowa after your pulled over for speeding?
There is no "police state", that's ridiculas. Honestly, the US could just inforce immigration the same way Mexico does, that will end the debate right there. ( Mexico has much harsher immigration laws than the US does)
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05-04-2010, 12:54 AM
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mow your own lawn -
05-04-2010, 02:01 AM
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Provide a GAO report from any year that supports your fantasy 600k imprisoned figure. Again what exactly are you selling? You do'nt know how to add? The GAO number from the Ed Koch article is from GAO report not from Ed Koch? So far you've demonstrated your ability to manufacture numbers not supported by anything but your inability to read a GAO report.
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05-04-2010, 04:09 AM
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Yeah but the Ed Koch article is quoting data from 2000-2003. I'm talking about today. I don't think the number has gone down Just as illegal immigration has gone down from 2003; it has sky rocketed some estimated 30 million nation wide. I'm not sure exactly what numbers you want or what you hope to see from them. Are you denying there is a problem? Also from the Ed Article too: "According to the Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform, “Today, criminal aliens account for about 30 percent of the inmates in federal prisons and 15-25 percent in many local jails. Incarceration costs to the taxpayers were estimated by the Justice Department in 2002 to be $891 million for federal prison inmates and $624 million for inmates in state prisons [annually].” Every year, about 600,000 of those incarcerated, not limited to illegal aliens, are released and within three years, two-thirds become recidivists and are back in prison." That was back on '02. It surely isn't going down, despite all that has been done. But here, read up on how great it is on the border and how there isn't any need for action in Arizona.: Border disorder - NYPOST.com "And Arizona's "discriminatory" new state law empowering police to pursue criminal aliens? Should Phoenix let the rule of law collapse because Washington prefers political correctness to public safety? In DC, it's about politics. In Arizona, it's about survival." As you and the majority of liberal parrots are trying to make this about politics... Sure we will both go back to our safe little lives knowing the we are both right in our own mind, but in the end the problems there are really happening. Read the NY POST Ralph Peters article (the guy has lived and been there). Has anyone got any ideas of what the State should be doing if you are not for this bill?
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05-04-2010, 04:51 AM
I have been quiet for a little too long on this one.
Clint, no one is arguing that criminals shouldn't be punished and that immigrants here illegally shouldn't be dealt with properly. That is not the problem with Arizona's new law. The problem is that LEGAL CITIZENS will be treated as criminals. Two phrases from the law: LEGAL CONTACT. LEGAL CONTACT is any lawful interaction by a police officer with an individual. Well, that is pretty much any contact outside of criminal activity by a police officer. A police officer can approach anyone for any reason at any time. REASONABLE SUSPICION. This is the catch phrase that no one can define. I think we all know what merits "reasonable suspicion" in the spirit and intention of the law, but I want to hear the legal definition as you understand it. You say race has nothing to do with it. If it isn't skin color, accent or language ability, then what would make a police officer reasonably suspicious of an individual that would merit them asking for proof of citizenship under this law? I really just want to hear the answer to that simple question.
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05-04-2010, 05:48 AM
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You were afraid your posts were being buried by all the logic of this thread. Well read up. This question has been answered a million times over by now. Okay I'll answer your one question. If a cop pulls over that individual for a traffic violation and can't produce a DL to ID him or herself, then there is reasonable belief that he or she is illegal because illegals don't have ID. The cop didn't pull them over because they weren't the right shade of skin, it was because of traffic violation. The person didn't have ID. Being in the area of the border or anywhere in Arizona where there is an illegal problem, the officer can now ask the death question "Are you here legally?" Now if the cop was to pull them over for no other reason, no traffic violation, other to ask them are they here legally, then the cop is violating the new Arizona law. The answer is the STATE IS GOING TO DO IT LIKE THE FEDS. THE STATE LAW IS THE SAME AS THE FEDERAL LAW. IT IS LEGAL. Satisfied? Now answer mine: How does Japan handle their illegal problem? If you are stopped and asked for proof of being in the country legally, are you going to scream racist? No? Didn't think so. Japan hasn't got politically correct foolishness on the brain, even when there isn't a state of emergency, nor would any country with a problem like the US has got. That is how they keep the illegal population at bay. For a person who writes on what to expect in Japan and on the Japanese in general, you sure are race baiting on this issue. You refused to answer last time because of "godwine's law". But funny how the left calling this nazism to stir up what they do best; as you can see from the videos I posted throughout this thread. Arizona is doing the job of the federal government. The state can now do what is already on the books as federal law. Arizona is now doing what the rest of the world is doing but even less so because they still have to be politically correct and not just stop anyone by their race for no other reason to ask about their legalization. The left only offers politcal correctness and similies to nazis while ignoring the problems. Read the bill for what it is (not for what the lib talking points are making it to be), read this thread in its entirety, read the NY post article on the state of CA and Arizona, then you can gracefully bow out again, because I'm fed up with where the left is taking the country; especially on this issue. CAN YOU TELL? This law violates nothing and that is why it will stand and I sleep well at night knowing it is on the books now. How are you going to track down illegals? Oh wait I hear MMM already typing up his "take the lollipop away and all the problems will go away" line... Sorry illegals that are criminals don't work those jobs.
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