US Cafe Won't Serve Uniformed Police Officers

[ParaPara]

Omg! This clearly shows that all police officers are out to harass the public. I know what to do. Since police officers are the largest street gang in America, we should just get rid of them all together. Our cities would be a lot safer if there were no cops. It makes total sense. *sarcasm*


And jeez, just show him your freaking drivers license. What is so hard about that. That dude was definitely hiding something.

I am not saying that every police officer is a saint and does no wrong. However, crooked cops are the minority not the majority.

Sometimes I feel like IM in the minority among teens when I show respect for and applaud police officers.

So angry right now!

Deep breaths...

Better now.

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by Aniki

Cafe owner kicks out a police officer, really, I wonder why?

Segment 1: Disagreement over possessions.
Segment 2: Failing to cooperate with officers regarding ID.
Segment 3: Failing to cooperate with officers regarding ID.
Segment 4: Failing to cooperate with officers regarding ID.
Segment 5: Failing to cooperate with officers regarding ID.
Segment 6: (Too vague to judge)
Segment 7: Criminal Incident.
Segment 8: Criminal Incident.
Segment 9: Criminal Incident.

The first segment is iffy. I'm not sure there was an appropriate reason for an arrest, aside from the disruptive behavior (which, even then is questionable). I could be convinced that was an illegal arrest. Though, it's somewhat difficult to know what they're arguing about, exactly...

Segment 2 to 5 show various scenarios in which officers request ID and are not shown one. I would've thought it was common sense to know that refusing to cooperate with officers does not make you look good to them -- or to the law -- regardless of how "uncomfortable" you may feel. I would be more concerned if a suspect could simply walk away when an officer requested identification.

Why withhold ID for any reason other than to hide something or make a political statement? When you refuse to identify yourself you may be obligating them to further investigate your person... In one of the videos, the individual taping sounded like he was in fact hiding something.

The last three segments are obviously criminal. Those cops are disgraceful, and should be punished.

On another note: It's a good strategy to mix questionably legitimate incidents (1-6) with obviously illegal incidents (7-9) to prove a point. I'm not sure whether it was intentional, but nevertheless...

There were 9 clips that included approximately 14 accused "corrupt" officers. What ratio of "corrupt" officers would that represent in comparison to the entire Law Enforcement body.

All of the clips included in the video were only segments of complete cases... Which - correct me if I'm wrong - did not take place in Portland. And, if they did, they were still incidents that unfolded in result of a probable cause (excluding 7-9), which is unrelated to the situation in the café.

[Refer to my first post] Unless someone was hiding something, the officer had no potential of causing a scene. It seems he was simply following the nature of his job: making a presence.

[MMM]

In regards to the cafe in Portland, there is really no talk or complaints in Portland of "Police corruption". The only issue now is the officer involved shootings that have happened in recent years. Several of the cases (including the most recent one, where the driver of a stopped vehicle shot a police officer in the leg before being shot to death) involve people with mental issues. Really that's it.

[fluffy0000]

just a cursory glance at Portland Ore. PD recent shooting incident regarding Aaron Campbell Jan. 29,2010 latest police shooting ( unarmed and with hands above his head and in full compliance with police - was shot in the back by police after being shot with a bean bag,...) especially revealing is the just released grand jury testimony transcripts and police logs from that night. A federal civil rights investigation is ongoing.
The Portland Ore PD's handling of the homeless in the downtown area is also of note because it falls so far below the publics radar ?
Not counting the beating death of James Chasse a homeless man beat to death by Portland PD so severely that 16 of his ribs were broken all recorded on video tape Feb,2008.

[Aniki]

Originally Posted by Jaydelart

Segment 1: Disagreement over possessions.
Segment 2: Failing to cooperate with officers regarding ID.
Segment 3: Failing to cooperate with officers regarding ID.
Segment 4: Failing to cooperate with officers regarding ID.
Segment 5: Failing to cooperate with officers regarding ID.
Segment 6: (Too vague to judge)
Segment 7: Criminal Incident.
Segment 8: Criminal Incident.
Segment 9: Criminal Incident.

The first segment is iffy. I'm not sure there was an appropriate reason for an arrest, aside from the disruptive behavior (which, even then is questionable). I could be convinced that was an illegal arrest. Though, it's somewhat difficult to know what they're arguing about, exactly...

Segment 2 to 5 show various scenarios in which officers request ID and are not shown one. I would've thought it was common sense to know that refusing to cooperate with officers does not make you look good to them -- or to the law -- regardless of how "uncomfortable" you may feel. I would be more concerned if a suspect could simply walk away when an officer requested identification.

Why withhold ID for any reason other than to hide something or make a political statement? When you refuse to identify yourself you may be obligating them to further investigate your person... In one of the videos, the individual taping sounded like he was in fact hiding something.

The last three segments are obviously criminal. Those cops are disgraceful, and should be punished.

On another note: It's a good strategy to mix questionably legitimate incidents (1-6) with obviously illegal incidents (7-9) to prove a point. I'm not sure whether it was intentional, but nevertheless...

There were 9 clips that included approximately 14 accused "corrupt" officers. What ratio of "corrupt" officers would that represent in comparison to the entire Law Enforcement body.

All of the clips included in the video were only segments of complete cases... Which - correct me if I'm wrong - did not take place in Portland. And, if they did, they were still incidents that unfolded in result of a probable cause (excluding 7-9), which is unrelated to the situation in the café.

[Refer to my first post] Unless someone was hiding something, the officer had no potential of causing a scene. It seems he was simply following the nature of his job: making a presence.

The video doesn't have any particular connection with the cafe incident besides the fact the any cop whether he's on duty or not can be a potential trouble. A cop is just another customer, and the owner has a right to kick him out, just like any other customer if he has his reasons. The 7 & 8 segments of the video made me understand why the owner would want the officer to leave.

Also, I recommend watching all 6 parts. They have even more shocking footages.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Aniki

The video doesn't have any particular connection with the cafe incident besides the fact the any cop whether he's on duty or not can be a potential trouble. A cop is just another customer, and the owner has a right to kick him out, just like any other customer if he has his reasons. The 7 & 8 segments of the video made me understand why the owner would want the officer to leave.

Also, I recommend watching all 6 parts. They have even more shocking footages.

Any person in any job can be potential trouble. There is corruption and simply "bad people" in any industry, and law enforcement is no exception. However that seems like a pretty weak excuse to exclude ALL members of that profession from your business. Certainly the owner has the right to make that decision, as long as it isn't based on race, etc. that are protected. And I have the right to say I think that makes him look foolish.

[Aniki]

Unlike in other industries, for those in law enforcement it's easier to get away when they break the law, so there is a difference.
I agree, it might seem foolish of him, but if he feels safer when there are no cops around, then that's his choice.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Aniki

Unlike in other industries, for those in law enforcement it's easier to get away when they break the law, so there is a difference.
I agree, it might seem foolish of him, but if he feels safer when there are no cops around, then that's his choice.

Even if that is true, it doesn't mean that police officers are more or less corrupt than people in other industries.

On the other hand, when corruption, illegalities, or simple mistakes are discovered the police as a whole often get blamed...even on other cities around the country.

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by Aniki

The video doesn't have any particular connection with the cafe incident besides the fact the any cop whether he's on duty or not can be a potential trouble. A cop is just another customer, and the owner has a right to kick him out, just like any other customer if he has his reasons. The 7 & 8 segments of the video made me understand why the owner would want the officer to leave.

Also, I recommend watching all 6 parts. They have even more shocking footages.

Anyone can be potential trouble. People, in general, are prone to misbehaving. However, kicking someone out of a public establishment when they haven't made any apparent mistakes seems pretty unfair to me. Which leads to the matter of whether the officer was even doing anything wrong? Not from what I understand, at the moment. Simply being in or associated to a (legitimate) profession, which essentially seems to be the owner's reason, is grounds for kicking him out? That, to me, meets the definition of discrimination.

And, oh yes, I know quite well how bad cops can be. I've seen most of the videos on the net, and have also witnessed, first-hand, corrupt law enforcement. However, I also know well enough not to judge the entire Law Enforcement body by those bad apples.

There seems to be an eagerness to oppose authority somewhere in all of this, and it's not necessarily a romantically good thing. (Not referring directly to you, that is)

[edelweiss]

The officer was upset but even he had to admit that it is a great thing to live in a country where you can approach a uniformed and armed man of authority and politely ask him to leave your shop. In many places that would be the equivalent of asking to be harassed, beaten or even arrested. Rather than pitying the officer or mocking the cafe owner (and it's a co-op so everyone who works there is an owner), look at the action as a sign that people can exercise their rights without fear of brutal reprisal. It is a great thing.

I also trust that the cafe knows it's demographic. The people who are boycotting it are not their clientele in the first place, their regular clientele is happy about the cafe's choice and their actions may cause people of like mind to now patronize them to show support. Their sales may increase.

Assuming the police in Portland are good people, they will still respnd to calls from that address because they are professionals. Even if they disagree with the cafe it doesn't mean they wish harm on the cafe.