Do Japanese guys pay for meals/outings for female friends?

[GoNative]

I haven't actually dated for something like 14 years but back in the day it was certainly normal in Australia if going out for the first few times that the man would foot the bill. If things got a little more serious then normally you'd start splitting the bill or taking in turns paying. I did have one girlfriend who never offered to pay and about 3 months into the relationship I'd had enough and made it clear she'd have to start paying a little as well. She wan't happy with it but did start paying. Hell I was only a student and didn't have much spare cash!
My wife and I don't consider things in terms of yours or my money. It's just our money so it doesn't matter who pays. It's just a pain in the butt that you can't get joint bank accounts in this country!

[SHAD0W]

Originally Posted by steven

Wow... I guess I'm cheap because I usually split most of our meals out. As far as dates go, I've paid before, but so has my girlfriend. She does most of the cooking, but I'll cook sometimes too, so I guess we have a different kind of balance than most people. We usually split groceries, too.

Its the same for me and my better half, but I always pay for groceries too.

Originally Posted by steven

I understand what MMM said, and I think that's a pretty good policy... but if the girl never intends to cook for you then, to me at least, there's a bit of that weirdness there.

Haha I agree. Along with other kitchen things such as this "washing machine" and the like that I've heard so much about. What's this "iron" do anyways? I'd ask but she's busy doing the dishes.

Originally Posted by steven

I may be straying into the "S or M" topic a little bit here though.

Off topic but FYI, the S and M have the opposite meanings in Japan.

Originally Posted by berrypie

I guess this rarely happens among white couples. I indeed did see guys carrying their girlfriends' purses on the street, and they were almost asians. My brother did the same thing too so I gave him a serious lesson.

We call this being "pussy whipped".

Originally Posted by GoNative

It's just a pain in the butt that you can't get joint bank accounts in this country!

In Japan? Didn't know that.

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by MMM

Ladies, understand. Men LOOK FORWARD to taking women they like out for dinner. This is why they work. We work to make money in order to be able to do things like this. This is what single men want to spend their money on. There is nothing more emasculating than a woman who refuses to let a man treat her like a women.

Conversely, Gentlemen (the world over) understand. Women do appreciate your primal need to bring to our feet the fatted mammoth to make you feel manly. We very much like it (why else do you think so many spinsters keep cats? Its the only other species that bothers). But there is nothing less romantic and more awkward than a date that ends with us feeling obligated. You know what I mean. Particularly if the chemistry was only mediocre. It's a situation that sucks for us and it sucks for you. So take the hint; if we offer to pay when you ask us out (early in a relationship), there's possibly a reason.

At any rate it's 2010, and in some cultures you have to accept that some girls are going to offer, and that little polite power play over the check does much more in your favor if you don't get humpy about it. It's not about the money, or the provision- it's a control check, and a check to see if you respect us. Sometimes there is nothing more endearing than a man who is visibly pleased by our offer, but politely insists on spoiling us. That's the real gentleman. The one who all but declares 'absolutely not, you're the woman!" or who looks castrated by the very idea comes across as a misogynist at worst or a wet dipstick at best.

Or for some of us, being treated 'like a woman' means being treated 'like an adult' and just occasionally, "like an equal", so it can really grate if we can only 'pay you back' adequately with nookie or home-cooking. Even if we really do like you. Sorry if that means we don't pay you back sometimes, but honestly, you limit our options if you get too precious about your masculinity and too prescribing about what constitutes our femininity. And yes, there are some inconsiderate grubbing little harlots out there, but we mostly think their awful too. </modern western bias>

On a personal note, I loathe this rule book idea of dating. Surely, ~surely~ it should depend entirely on the two individuals in question and a compromise between expectations, and that shouldn't compromise the 'real gender' quality of either party. But in terms of cross-cultural dating, I do play it by culture, if someone I know who feels very traditional about dating asks me out and I accept, I will play by their rules (to a fair extent). But I also expect it to come back the other way and for them to try the view of my culture. I don't think that's an unreasonable demand. If they feel it is, then clearly they're not the person for me nor I for them. I can also appreciate that Japanese women might see things very differently to me, and I'm not going to knock that, and on many levels, that more traditional view of femininity is much more accepted and respected in Japan. But then, I'm not a japanese woman and I have other aspects to consider.

I think this is what creates a lot of issues for western women nowadays in Japan; either you can adapt to this, or you cannot. Back home it carries certain stigmas- that's hard to get past and Japanese men don't always understand where you're coming from.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by MMM

Since when do American women prefer "splitting the bill"?

I think there is confusion between "casual dating" and "serious dating".

I'm an American woman and I prefer it this way. Seems much more fair to me to just split the bill evenly instead of having one pay for the entire meal, or either maybe one pay for everything for one date and on the next one, the other pays.

[steven]

MMM, just out of curiosity, what do you consider serious dating?

I guess no matter how I look at it, splitting seems like the best policy. If the date went bad, you don't wanna pay the bill, because even if it's there on the table, you don't want any. If the date went good, and you're looking for your soul mate, then don't get her accustomed to you paying the bill every time because you're gonna get screwed over when she dumps you later on down the road. If you've been going out for a while or you're married, then why not foot the bill-- knowing your partner will do the same for you somewhere along the way. But as SSJup81 pointed out, some people don't like dropping a wad of cash all at once, so that makes splitting the bill a common policy for them.

If you're talking about casual dating-- paying for a whole meal/night out is paying for sex. I don't mean to be offensive, but I see it quite clearly as such. If that's what you want and that's your approach, then more power to you. However, I could almost see it as degrading to pay for too much for your partner. Either your partner is using you and you're a wimp, or you don't see your partner as anywhere near equal to you, so you always pay for them-- the same way a boss pays for his workers on a night out. If you've gota house wife/husband or your salaries are SUPER different, then that is another story, however. If you're just dating, though, then why is this woman or man going out with no money? I may have a harsh outlook, but that woman or man would be selling themself.

Admitedly, I'm not very consistant as I'll still offer to carry heavy things for women or open doors for them. That may be insulting in a sense, too-- but that's not the way I mean it. I guess that's how this situation can be looked at. There's more sentiment to all this. You have to admit though, there are certain people out there without gratidude who expect the world at all costs from everyone else. Or at least a free meal.

[aoiNatsuki]

date fairly~ anybody can pay the bill~

[lilsgeru]

Thanks for all the replies! But actually i was wondering more about guys paying for platonic female friends, not their girlfriends...is that common at all in Japan?

[seiki]

Well if you are just friends not wanting anything more than to go out and have fun then both split the bill. Why would you pay for someone to see a movie or eat if you are just friends you would not do this with two straight males or females. Unless one of you needed money.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by steven

MMM, just out of curiosity, what do you consider serious dating?

On the quest for a life-partner/spouse/long-term relationship.

Originally Posted by steven

I guess no matter how I look at it, splitting seems like the best policy. If the date went bad, you don't wanna pay the bill, because even if it's there on the table, you don't want any. If the date went good, and you're looking for your soul mate, then don't get her accustomed to you paying the bill every time because you're gonna get screwed over when she dumps you later on down the road. If you've been going out for a while or you're married, then why not foot the bill-- knowing your partner will do the same for you somewhere along the way. But as SSJup81 pointed out, some people don't like dropping a wad of cash all at once, so that makes splitting the bill a common policy for them.

No wonder younger people are so confused about dating and relationships these days. There is so much effort to be fair and even and the same that men and women don't have roles.

I don't know what the date "goes bad" means, but if it did go bad, asking the girl to split the bill isn't going to make it any better. And if you can't afford to take a lady out to dinner, then you shouldn't be dating in the first place.

In my book, splitting the bill with someone your are trying to get closer to is a ticket to a nice friendship, and likely nothing more.

Originally Posted by steven

Admitedly, I'm not very consistant as I'll still offer to carry heavy things for women or open doors for them. That may be insulting in a sense, too-- but that's not the way I mean it. I guess that's how this situation can be looked at. There's more sentiment to all this. You have to admit though, there are certain people out there without gratidude who expect the world at all costs from everyone else. Or at least a free meal.

If you are taking a gold digger out to dinner, then whose fault is that?

[RobinMask]

Originally Posted by seiki

Well if you are just friends not wanting anything more than to go out and have fun then both split the bill. Why would you pay for someone to see a movie or eat if you are just friends you would not do this with two straight males or females. Unless one of you needed money.

I disagree slightly with this. It's quite normal for friends to treat one another (or here it is anyway). Often I'd treat my friends to a movie or a meal, and recently my friends treat me because our financial situations have reversed. I still treat them when I can, and they me. Even when money isn't an issue it's nice to just treat someone to something, not because they particularly need it, but because they're your friend and you want to do something nice for them.

I'm not sure whether this is normal in Japan or not, but personally I see nothing wrong with paying for the other person every now and again, regardless of their gender.