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06-15-2010, 06:02 PM
I just don't want to believe this . . .I just can't see myself rekying on someone to pay my bills! I won't let that happen! That's why I do ym best in school. So i can work as something I like and support the family I help make later on . . .I prefer splitting over assigning "roles" or "she'll do this why he'll do that all of the time" It's more flexible and simpiler that way . . .
I'm sprry, I just can't help but cringe at depending on someone financially like that when I don't have to. I have no Friends- The cats have scratched and destroyed all of the DVDs! I always owe someone- In fact I put two os in it! I always ruin my clothes with Bleach!- The show is so dom suspensful I spill my grape soda on them! But . . .I'll live. 
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06-15-2010, 07:15 PM
I am beginning to wonder if there is a serious generation gap when it comes to dating etiquette in the west from reading this.
Except from about 1980-95, I have been dating since 1968, and this is the one aspect that has never changed. Men have expected to pay for the expenses of the evening when they ask me out. Some would be highly offended otherwise; the implication being that they were unable to afford the expense. The only exception to this is what I believe MMM meant by "casual" dating, such as when hanging out together as part of a group, or when doing something together other than what would be considered a date and then having a meal together on the spur of the moment. (i.e., helping shop for furniture or electronics, attending a class together) Perhaps it is age making a difference in attitude. When I began dating it would have been a serious breach not to pick your date up at their house and introduce yourself to the family (at least parents), but today its more common to meet someplace mutually convenient. And likewise the older the gentlemen the more insistent I find them to be about covering all expenses. It even tends to present itself when with a group. I have come learn not to insist on paying my own bar tab when there is a man my age with us; especially if he is Asian. They not only think you are insulting their financial status, but consider it on a par with refusing a gift because you dislike them.  Only an open mind and open heart can be filled with life. ********************* Find your voice; silence will not protect you.
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06-15-2010, 08:16 PM
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06-16-2010, 01:33 AM
I think that things need to really be split into clearer categories. Not every dinner with someone of the opposite sex is going to be the same in terms of "date-ness".
Friends, or coworkers just out eating together... I would see no problem with them splitting the bill. In fact, if the bill wasn`t split, I would expect the side that didn`t pay to pay in full next time. "Casual" dating - as in not looking for a relationship / just getting to know each other... NOT looking for a one night stand. I would expect the side that initiated the date to pay unless there is some agreement before to split it. If you ASK, then you should be able to afford it. If you can`t afford the date, then do not ask someone out on one. I will NEVER forget the time a guy asked me out on a date, we went out to eat, and then he asked me to pay my part of the bill. That ended everything right there. I declined to go anywhere with him after that, and killed the relationship in the bud. If you`re so pathetic that you cannot afford to pay for a meeting you asked for - something is wrong. Similar deal though with same-sex friends. I`ll also never forget the irritation of having a friend nearly drag me along with her to dinner so she could talk about something that was troubling her - eat tons (I had already eaten so didn`t order anything other than a drink and dessert)... And then expect me to split the bill 50/50 with her. I had virtually no money at the time, so it really irritated me. I was just dragged along so she could have dinner at half price. If it`s clear from the start, then okay. But if you ask me to dinner and then expect me to pay for it... Umm.... No. I order differently if I know I`m the one paying - I usually keep the cost of my meal lower or at the same level as the other person`s. If I am paying for it myself, I will eat what I want as I won`t be costing someone else. Nothing sucks as bad as there being something that looks really good on the menu but costs way more than what they`re eating - so ordering something else... And then finding out in the end that they wanted to pay our own way. For serious dating - as in more than just casually getting to know each other... The guy pays unless the girl has specifically asked him out and it is completely clear that she will be paying half or the full bill. Even then it is within the bounds of politeness for him to at least offer a few times to pay. When you both know each other`s financial situations really well and it isn`t an issue really as it is already a serious relationship then it no longer matters. The same with once you`re married - it no longer matters. But in the beginning - I agree with MMM. Once the "date" changes from friends just going out to eat, to possibly something more... If the guy still wants to split the bill, it says that he does not want it to become "something more". Just as a guy suddenly offering to pay for my meal after we`ve split the bill a bunch of times would be a sign that he does want it to be something more, and suddenly wanting me to pay for my part would be a sign that it wasn`t working. Casual sexual dating is a different world on it`s own, and I do agree that the guy paying for everything is pretty likely to be expecting something in return for his money. That world has it`s own rules and expectations. In the end, if you`re taking out someone who takes advantage of you... You really only have your own tastes and poor judgement to blame.
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06-16-2010, 05:07 AM
I agree with everything Nyororin is saying. This is how dating is, and in my experience isn't that different from the US and Japan.
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06-16-2010, 01:01 PM
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In the UK, I think it's becoming more common for the girls to be paying the bill. I mean, it's still unusual, but it's not so readily baulked at as it once was, esp. amongst the London too-hot-to-trot set. And why not? The girls get a buzz off the role reversal, and it feels powerful and sexy to pay for dinner with a man. The guys get a chance to be treated for once and well; free dinner with a girl who's interested? Interested AND hopped up on a sexy ego boost? No wonder toy-boyism is on the rise. Anyway, if a guy can only ask me out if he can afford it, well that kind of sucks. If he ~implies~ he's got it in the bag and then back-peddles at the last moment (a la Nyororin's example) that's one thing. My ex was broke, I had a honking great scholarship. We had a great dating relationship and yes, I footed much of the bill. It certainly wasn't a factor in why we broke up. And it kind of sticks a monetary value on the relationship before it even begins and that's a little sad. As the song goes, "Can't buy me love~"
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06-16-2010, 01:20 PM
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There is nothing wrong with going out and splitting the bill - however, to me that says that I have not been "taken on a date" or "taken out to dinner" - just that we had dinner together. There is a difference in terms of what it means for a relationship. I`m sure there is some level of generation gap involved, but I see it more as whether you are looking for a real long term relationship or not. If you`re just casually dating, like the youngest set on most likely is, then you`re going to think differently than someone who is actually looking for a potential life partner. I mean, I`m not THAT old - the next "generation" down from me is most certainly not looking for a partner if they`re even old enough to date. :P
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06-16-2010, 02:36 PM
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06-16-2010, 02:47 PM
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