Do Japanese guys pay for meals/outings for female friends?

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by GoNative

As I said earlier I only wish my wife earned enough so that I didn't have to work. That would be bliss!!

That's ironic. One of the teachers I work with pretty much told me, "I hate working." His wife is pregnant now, and she's at home. He said he'd rather be house-husband and would be nice if she worked. I found that to be an interesting perspective.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Columbine

No, of course not. The problems with being a modern mother generally have no bearing on how much they love their children or means they resent having had them. I don't know any mother who blames her kids for the sacrifices that have had to be made for them. It's more the society that foists on them this need to stop being everything else that they are and boil down to this role, which is then looked down upon. Whatever way you look at it, there's a lot of internal conflict. Amongst my age group there's girls who want children and want to be mothers, yet don't see motherhood as it's presented to them as this glowing beacon of aspiration, but something of a minefield with as much loss as gain.

Again, you are showing a lot of negativity towards motherhood that I simply have never heard before. Maybe things are different in the UK, but in my experience women are proud of being stay-at-home moms, and for the most part I think society appreciates them.

You talk about "the problems" of being a mother, but I don't know that mothers here see "problems". I also don't know that mothers consider raising their children as a "sacrifice".

I know mothers that run in marathons, own their own businesses, and joke about their hangovers on Facebook.

Never have I thought "she shouldn't be doing that, because she is a mom".

I am sad to hear women your age (not sure what age that is) see motherhood as a minefield.

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by bolay

But he said that he wish that he didn't have to work ... Then what he's gonna do everyday if his wife covered all
The other way around wouldn't be called selfish, in my opinion, because that a man job to support the whole family, if needed the wife could support too.
I just think if a man thinkin that way it would be so selfish... become pregnant, give birth, etc, only women can do it and it's hard (looking @ my mother) so why would a man let his women do others thing if not needed or his woman wanted it.
then again it just my opinion, i'm not married (yet) so i don't really know

It's purely wishful thinking and not ever going to happen. I have plenty of friends though where the wife makes far more money than the husband and in some of those cases it has been the husband who has taken time off working to look after their young child so the wife can get back to work quicker. With people I associate with there is very little of the old time traditional views that man must make money and wife raise the family. To be honest most of them would think that people who hold such views are pretty behind the times. Of course here in Japan where there really wasn't much of a revolution for womens rights gender roles remain fairly traditional.

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by MMM

Again, you are showing a lot of negativity towards motherhood that I simply have never heard before. Maybe things are different in the UK, but in my experience women are proud of being stay-at-home moms, and for the most part I think society appreciates them.

You talk about "the problems" of being a mother, but I don't know that mothers here see "problems". I also don't know that mothers consider raising their children as a "sacrifice".

I know mothers that run in marathons, own their own businesses, and joke about their hangovers on Facebook.

Never have I thought "she shouldn't be doing that, because she is a mom".

I am sad to hear women your age (not sure what age that is) see motherhood as a minefield.

The thing is MMM is that for many women I know they have spent years educating themselves, many are lawyers or scientists with PHD's. These women just like most men have great career aspirations and to throw all that education and training away to spend a large portion of their lives raising children would be a great sacrifice and frankly a great loss to society.
These are very intelligent and ambitious women who have not grown up ever thinking they would be spending any of their life sitting around a house cleaning up after their husband.

Most of them firmly establish themselves in their careers before even thinking about having children or getting married so rarely have children before they are 30. And they generally get back into work as quickly as possible after having their children. Some may consider this selfish but isn't it just as selfish for men to expect a women to be the ones to sacrifice their careers and ambitions after a child is born? I guess it depends how much you believe in traditional roles for men and women.

[WingsToDiscovery]

A man should ALWAYS pay. This is "Game 101." There is only one exception to this rule:
1: The relationship is completely platonic and the girl asks you to take her to eat somewhere foreign/expensive.*

*= Even when the meal is her idea, you need to offfer to pay. If she insists, be glad you're not out any money, as this gesture still won't get you any anyway. If you're a true alpha male, take the bill and pay it regardless.

Basically, it shouldn't even be a question of whether or not a guy should pay, no matter the culture. It's basic instinct. There's nothing worse than when a girl PMSs over a guy holding the door for her or other gestures like that.

And if you're a guy and you can't even afford to pay for your girl, then you shouldn't even think about a relationship with her yet. A small dinner is one of the lowest things on the expenses scale you'll need to be ready to afford.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by GoNative

The thing is MMM is that for many women I know they have spent years educating themselves, many are lawyers or scientists with PHD's. These women just like most men have great career aspirations and to throw all that education and training away to spend a large portion of their lives raising children would be a great sacrifice and frankly a great loss to society.

Since when is raising a child equal to "throwing an education away"? Are your achievements in education not still those achievements, whether you take off two weeks, or take off six years? Your degrees and achievements are not "thrown away" just because you choose to raise your child.

And this is my opinion, but I think society would be better served not only by lawyers and scientists, but by children who are raised by their parents, rather than strangers.

Originally Posted by GoNative

These are very intelligent and ambitious women who have not grown up ever thinking they would be spending any of their life sitting around a house cleaning up after their husband.

If one wants to focus on their career, then great. Don't have kids.

If one doesn't want to deal with the give and take of having a husband, then great. Don't get married.

Originally Posted by GoNative

Most of them firmly establish themselves in their careers before even thinking about having children or getting married so rarely have children before they are 30. And they generally get back into work as quickly as possible after having their children. Some may consider this selfish but isn't it just as selfish for men to expect a women to be the ones to sacrifice their careers and ambitions after a child is born? I guess it depends how much you believe in traditional roles for men and women.

So explain to me, why are they having children at all? If a parent's goal is to get back to work ASAP not out of need, but out of career aspirations, then I can't help but wonder why they had children in the first place.

I think the problem, at least in the US is that there is modern movement for equality. I am not talking about equal pay for equal work, but in families with men and women taking the same roles. I have nothing against a man staying at home and the woman going to work. I just think SOMEONE should be there to raise the child, mom or dad. If not, why are these career-focused parents having children at all?

Originally Posted by WingsToDiscovery

A man should ALWAYS pay. This is "Game 101." There is only one exception to this rule:
1: The relationship is completely platonic and the girl asks you to take her to eat somewhere foreign/expensive.*

*= Even when the meal is her idea, you need to offfer to pay. If she insists, be glad you're not out any money, as this gesture still won't get you any anyway. If you're a true alpha male, take the bill and pay it regardless.

Basically, it shouldn't even be a question of whether or not a guy should pay, no matter the culture. It's basic instinct. There's nothing worse than when a girl PMSs over a guy holding the door for her or other gestures like that.

And if you're a guy and you can't even afford to pay for your girl, then you shouldn't even think about a relationship with her yet. A small dinner is one of the lowest things on the expenses scale you'll need to be ready to afford.

I think I have never agreed with you more.

[GoNative]

MMM you must work in a very different world than I if taking 5 or more years out of your career wouldn't have a detrimental effect on it. As I said previously in places like Australia the idea of using day care for your child is not one filled with guilt at giving up your responsibilities as a parent. In fact it's often looked at as a good parenting choice that is great for the childs development, maybe day care centres are better quality in Aus than the US? Many parents, even if one of the parents don't work, often send their kids to day care at least a few days a week anyway.

The choice to keep working is often not just one based on career aspirations but on financial ones so that a family can provide a quality education and a life filled with great experiences fo their kids, something that may not be financially possible with only one parent working.

In Australia there just doesn't seem to be this gut wrenching choice of being a responsible parent or choosing career. Most feel the two can go hand in hand. Parents can still take a very active role in their childrens lives even though both work full time. I have nothing whatsoever against those parents that choose to stay at home until their kids head off to school or those mothers or fathers that choose to be housewives or househusbands. If that is what makes them happy then go for it. But I think it's great that men and especially women now have a choice instead of just having to follow some traditional roles that may not make them happy one little bit.

[steven]

I think it's interesting to note that there are stay at home dads in Japan.

MMM, you seem to have a very nice and clean perspective about mothers... maybe it's my having grown up in/around LA, but I've known many "mothers" who have kids to get money from the government. Or mothers who accidentally have kids and use them for that. I've also known drug addicted mothers who couldn't give an S about their kids.

If we're talking about more or less normal people, though, I think most mothers do care very much for their children. Men do too... and I think men have been known to show their love by working their asses off for their family. Who's to say women can't do that, too? They're certainly capable in my opinion. There are also certainly men who are capable of raising their kids the way mothers traditionally have. There are, however, a few physiological things about this like breastfeeding and what-not. Once you get past those first few years though, what difference does it make, really? As a kid I was always jealous of other kids with stay at home parents. I don't think it would have made much of a difference if my mom or my dad stayed home to play with me all day, I would've been pretty happy.

"A man should ALWAYS pay. This is "Game 101." "
I think you took the women's version of "Game 101". You can split the bill and still get what you want. I think there are many women who know how to play that "game". With them, you might be better off throwing down your cash and skipping the meal part, though-- if that's what you're into.

And if you're a guy and you can't even afford to pay for your girl, then you shouldn't even think about a relationship with her yet. A small dinner is one of the lowest things on the expenses scale you'll need to be ready to afford.
Get ready to buy her that giant rock, a new car, nails every week, the divorce, and all the money she needs and then some to raise her kids, while you're at it. I don't mean to be rude, but I think that this style of thinknig can lead to such a catastrophe. Not all women are nice people (just like men)... some of them will use you.

[WingsToDiscovery]

Originally Posted by steven

I think you took the women's version of "Game 101". You can split the bill and still get what you want. I think there are many women who know how to play that "game". With them, you might be better off throwing down your cash and skipping the meal part, though-- if that's what you're into.

Hey women have game too. But compare how successful you'll be going dutch everytime to not being a cheap-ass. That's all there is to say about that.

Originally Posted by steven

Get ready to buy her that giant rock, a new car, nails every week, the divorce, and all the money she needs and then some to raise her kids, while you're at it. I don't mean to be rude, but I think that this style of thinknig can lead to such a catastrophe. Not all women are nice people (just like men)... some of them will use you.

You're going into different territory now, and that's not in this segment of "Game 101." You don't prepare to marry every girl you meet, and you don't just throw down the cash unless you have pimp status. How often do you just buy random girls dinner? You don't. The girl you're with should have at least proven friendship status, therebye showing that she could be worth the investment and won't just use you. This isn't foolproof, but being used can happen in any relationship, it's a moot point.

[WingsToDiscovery]

Originally Posted by MMM

I think I have never agreed with you more.

Glad we could find some common ground.
If there's one thing I know, it's wimmin.