Hostile Hostels Article in Japan Times

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by kunitokotachi

Japan is a very old country with an old way of thinking. It does not surprise me at all that things like this occur in some instances. My people have tunnel vision when it comes to many things. Ask my people to think outside of the box and be innovative and you may run into a brick wall. Ask my people about equality and fairness and you may draw question marks. However, that is part of what makes Japan Japan. What does surprise me however, is some people who go there and protest or make a huge deal about it. I think it's those in cultures where we are told to speak up and voice our opinions are the ones who has so much trouble with Japan. Japan is very different. I also think that it's people within the majority class where they come from who are so shocked about it because it's the first time they faced any type of discrimination.

I really have mixed feelings about it. Should you just brush it off and go to another hotel? Is this a case of when in Rome do as the Romans do? There is also this issue of having to deal with people of other cultures, habits, etc. It is really a pain in the ass to deal with for lots of Japanese. Japan is not diverse like some countries so there isn't that idea of understanding one another and acceptance. Historically, foreigners are always trying to tell Japan what to do. My people are more standoffish and don't like to get outside of that comfort zone, but some people seem to want push them out of it. Shouldn't it be ok for a private business to exclusively deal with Japanese clientele and not have to deal with language barriers or people who might do something that would be considered culturally offensive in Japan? I might shoot, there are many Japanese who have absolutely no interest with the world outside of Japan.

You are what is called a "cultural relativist". I suppose you defend female circumcision in Africa, or for that matter male circumcision in the US or Israel.

Perhaps if the Mayans were still around sacrificing virgins you would be calling for calm and telling us that as non-Mayans we have no right to criticize their culture... that we wouldnt "understand".

[Liongale]

I remember reading another viewpoint about such a refusal of service in such places (it may have even been in Dave Barry's book he wrote about visiting Japan, I can't remember).

It was about: it wasn't a matter of being against foreigners, but rather the people do not know how to accommodate those outside their language/culture- so rather instead of running into an embarassing situation, they refuse service outright- which to the business owner's viewpoint was the 'polite' thing to do.

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by Liongale

I remember reading another viewpoint about such a refusal of service in such places (it may have even been in Dave Barry's book he wrote about visiting Japan, I can't remember).

It was about: it wasn't a matter of being against foreigners, but rather the people do not know how to accommodate those outside their language/culture- so rather instead of running into an embarassing situation, they refuse service outright- which to the business owner's viewpoint was the 'polite' thing to do.

I must admit this makes a lot of sense. I am uncertain what our hotels or guest houses here in UK are like?

Maybe some of them also choose not to have certain people stay in their hotel.


It is their right of course. Do some japanese hotels etc cater for westerners. I know that I would be unable to stay in a ryokan where I have to sleep on the floor or eat from a low table. I am physically unable to do so.

Language also could be a major problem. So I guess if we plan to visit Japan we need to check first about availability and whether we wish to sample true original traditional Japanese hospitality-- or hope there are some places suitable for travellers from overseas.

I think each country should be able to decide for themselves who they are prepared to make welcome.

Reading about capsule hotels I find that rather scary.

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

I think each country should be able to decide for themselves who they are prepared to make welcome.

I don't agree. I don't believe that it is ever acceptable to discriminate based on race. It's wrong pure and simple. There's nothing that special about Japanese culture that would make it more acceptable.

[dogsbody70]

Interesting but surely when in ROME?

Indviduals who run hotels or guesthouses surely have a some rights.

There was a furore over here recently when a B&B owner refused to have GAY people stay.

There are plenty of other places surely.

I imagine in places like japan if guests cannot speak Japanese, and some of the staff have difficulty in communicating with non japanese visitors-- After all how many Japanese are conversant with westerners languages?

I must also say of course that if Japan wants to encourage visitors from around the world then they have to learn to provide the necessities.

Many of us are fascinated by Japan and wish to see that country.

It is a tricky subject-- If I booked in advance to come over I would need an interpreter and advice in the most suitable place to visit or to stay.

Before and after the war here, many lodging houses would refuse pregnant women or women with children, also NO IRISh or Blacks nor dogs. It was almost impossible to rent a property or a room if you were a single woman with a child.

I feel we are far more OPEN here than we used to be.

[RobinMask]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

Interesting but surely when in ROME?

Indviduals who run hotels or guesthouses surely have a some rights.

There was a furore over here recently when a B&B owner refused to have GAY people stay.

There are plenty of other places surely.

I imagine in places like japan if guests cannot speak Japanese, and some of the staff have difficulty in communicating with non japanese visitors-- After all how many Japanese are conversant with westerners languages?

I must also say of course that if Japan wants to encourage visitors from around the world then they have to learn to provide the necessities.

Many of us are fascinated by Japan and wish to see that country.

It is a tricky subject-- If I booked in advance to come over I would need an interpreter and advice in the most suitable place to visit or to stay.

Before and after the war here, many lodging houses would refuse pregnant women or women with children, also NO IRISh or Blacks nor dogs. It was almost impossible to rent a property or a room if you were a single woman with a child.

I feel we are far more OPEN here than we used to be.

Sorry, but this has been bugging me for a while. You keep comparing 'here' to Japan quite a lot in various posts and threads. 'Here' isn't Japan, nor is it any other country, and it seems strange to keep saying 'well here we do it this way' or in this case 'here we're very open, but Japan isn't'. . . it sounds like you're implying we're somehow better than Japan. That may be just my interpretation, but still.

Discrimination is wrong, I think we can establish that. That said, if you went to Japan you wouldn't necessarily have to speak the language to get by, just the same as in many areas of England, America etc. one doesn't need to speak English to get by. You'd be at a disadvantage, but you could survive. Why should Japan provide 'necessesities' to foriegners? From what I see it has everything there that one needs to live and survive, if you mean 'they should speak English so English-speakers can get by', then that's different. Why should they? Do we learn Japanese so Japanese can get by here?

[dogsbody70]

Of course not. I am just saying how it is here in Uk through my seventy odd years of living here. Just saying how it is.


I am fascinated by JAPAN and its people. I have a very good japanese friend and through her have been taking an interest in its culture and history. Whats wrong with making comparisons.

sorry if I have offended you or others.

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by RobinMask

Why should Japan provide 'necessesities' to foriegners? From what I see it has everything there that one needs to live and survive, if you mean 'they should speak English so English-speakers can get by', then that's different. Why should they? Do we learn Japanese so Japanese can get by here?

Of course Japan has no obligation to make things easier for english speakers. But if you're in the hospitality industry and want to make money from english speakers then it certainly helps to make it easier for them. I know in parts of Australia popular with Japanese tourists, like Cairns, you can find many hotels and retail outlets with signs in Japanese and Japanese speakers on staff. Only makes sense yeah? Up here in the Niseko ski area a large portion of the winter tourism is from Australia, Hong Kong and Singapore, all who speak english. So most accommodation providers here have signs in english and staff who speak english. Most restaurants have an english menu.

If you don't want to make money from overseas tourists, that's fine but it doesn't make it right to discriminate against them or refuse them to stay purely because of they are not Japanese.

[Nyororin]

I`ve already given my views on Debito and his tactics in various other threads, so won`t do that here....

However, I find it a bit interesting that he calls out Toyoko Inn in the article - the absolute best chain of discount hotels I have ever encountered anywhere in and out of Japan... And that I stay at regularly all over Japan and have NEVER had a single problem with them - either staying alone, with child, or me reserving for our family without presenting my husband`s information.

Then again - I speak Japanese fluently, so...

[Tsuwabuki]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I`ve already given my views on Debito and his tactics in various other threads, so won`t do that here....

However, I find it a bit interesting that he calls out Toyoko Inn in the article - the absolute best chain of discount hotels I have ever encountered anywhere in and out of Japan... And that I stay at regularly all over Japan and have NEVER had a single problem with them - either staying alone, with child, or me reserving for our family without presenting my husband`s information.

Then again - I speak Japanese fluently, so...

Honestly, the same here. There are Toyoko's in Korea, and when I was there, hilariously enough, the staff couldn't speak English, but they COULD speak Japanese, so what did I end up speaking?

You guessed it.