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08-07-2010, 12:26 AM
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It would be like me saying the people who died in 911 deserved it. Marking the anniversary of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is not about justifying anything. Its about sympathy.... a basic human emotion. I have sympathy for the survivors of such a cruel act. 
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08-07-2010, 12:44 AM
Well "those people" are c*nts
They can be whatever you want them to be. It would be like me saying the people who died in 911 deserved it. Unfortunately there's constantly conflict between using a nation's name as a representation of it's people, who may have completely different views than the government that rules it. That's why even when fighting a war with a nation, civilians are regarded as "innocents." However, it is still common to use a collective term like "Iraqis" even when only discussing insurgents. The people of 9/11 didn't necessarily deserve to die, but the government behind them provoked it. Marking the anniversary of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is not about justifying anything. Its about sympathy.... a basic human emotion. Oddly enough, this is a point I find interesting. In comparison to 9/11, who defines the 9/11 attack as justification for war and who regards it as a day for mourning, or even both? There are people out there who would contend the first point. Would the Japanese war machine consider this distinction if they had the means to continue to fight after the bombings? My photos from Japan and around the world: http://www.flickr.com/dylanwphotography
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08-07-2010, 04:36 AM
The US calculated 1.1 million American dead and 4 to 6 million Japanese dead for the invasion of the Japanese main islands, set to begin in 1946. That was a conservative estimate based on casualties from Okinawa. Truman wanted to try to avoid that, and yet still force Japan to surrender, that was one of the decideing factors to drop the bombs.
They required undamaged cities to show the destructive power of these weapons, the US also wanted to demonstrate the willingness to utilize such weapons to win, if that's what it took to convince Japan about it's hopless situation. ( That's why the second blast). In the end it was a numbers game, 300,000 Japanese dead verse 1,100,000 American and 4,000,000 to 6,000,000 Japanese dead. It's an ugly choice, wich would you make?
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08-07-2010, 09:07 AM
The problem with people using the governments justification for the dropping of the bombs is that most people haven't looked at all the facts... Many American leaders of the time, did not believe at the time, or after that the bombings were necessary.
This is an extract from General Dwight Eisenhower's memoirs "The White House Years: Mandate for Change, 1953-1956". He is one of many with this view. During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of "face." I'm no expert, and my research certainly doesn't bode Phd level, but for me, it was clear that Japan wouldn't have fought for much longer, and certainly wouldn't have lost the numbers given by the US Government since they had practically already lost the war... I guess, my other issue in this sensitive topic is the location they used to drop these bombs. Truman said they chose Hiroshima because if was a military base/city with little civilians... this was a lie (an official report; United States Strategic Bombing Survey, said so). Also, if the US wanted to simply demonstrate its power, why not use a small island with only military personnel? To top it all off, say I believe the justifications for Hiroshima, there is absolutely no justification acceptable to mankind for the second bomb!
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08-07-2010, 10:56 AM
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The dropping of the bombs remains a sore point among Japanese, particularly those who were young during the war, or who were born after it. Over the years Japanese history books have graphically described the dropping of the atomic bombs and the firebombing of Tokyo, while glossing over Japan's own acts during the war. To some Japanese it is as though the world were at peace in 1945 and America decided all at once to bomb Japan into oblivion. These people are the ones who protest most vocally each August, and who demand apologies from America for the dropping of the bombs. Was the dropping of the bombs necessary? Absolutely. Why? For several reasons. First, the Japanese were committed to die rather than to surrender, which was proven at Iwo Jima and Okinawa. Being committed to die is one thing, but the process of killing was costly, both to the Japanese and the American soldiers charged with the job. Every yard of land was fiercely contested, and paid for with blood. Second, there was the Soviet Union, which was pushing quickly toward Japan with an eye on adding it as a satellite nation. The Soviets were still angry Japan's defeat of the Russian Navy a few decades earlier. The first shots in the soon-to-come Cold War were already being fired, and the allies did not want the Soviet Union's influence to expand any further than it already had. And yet another reason is that America wanted to be the first to develop atomic weapons and produce them. Scientists before the war knew that it was possible to make an atomic bomb, Hitler had tried, but his nuclear facilities were destroyed before any serious development took place. Japan had no qualms about weapons of mass destruction, and they worked hard to develop chemical and biological weapons. For those of you who are unaware, chemical weapons are far more destructive and long-lasting than nuclear weapons. Japan used such weapons during the war, and it is estimated that Japan's chemical/biological weapons killed as many as 400,000 people. Had Japan had atomic weapons at their disposal during the war, they would used them without a second thought. Ironically enough, one of Japan's largest poison gas factories was built on Onukushima in Hiroshima prefecture. Though Japan was a signatory to the 1925 Geneva Protocol which outlawed the production of chemical/germ weapons, Japan began construction on the factory in 1928. Before I hear any more about the atomic bombs, I would love to hear Japan admit to their own acts of mass-murder in the war, and apologize for them.
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08-07-2010, 12:54 PM
Have you read SUrviving the Sword or about the battle of okinawa and the dreadful hell ships. we need to learn from history but we never seem to do so.
Would the Emperor have ended the war if not for those final bombs. even though the firebombing should have worked it didn't. Unless individual countries are aware of their own involvement in wars they will not realise their own culpability. The treatment of POWs was appalling also. many cannot ever forgive that. nuclear bombs should be banned in every single country including ours. UK. One thing about Nuclear capability they have helped to prevent wars because of the fear involved. so they have been seen as a deterrent. But what about those with itchy fingers.
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08-07-2010, 11:15 PM
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911 is remembered in the US as a day of tragedy. However there are people who think that America had it coming it for its bad foreign policy in the middle east. The comparison was meant to be contrasted against how many Americans tend to think Japan had it coming for not surrendering unconditionally earlier. I will just like to add that Americans tend to think that the decision to use atom bombs was the decision to end the war or continue it. The version of history that I am familiar with has Japan offering to surrender before the dropping of the bombs, but with some conditions. Therefore, the reality for me seems to be that the decision to drop the bombs was not the decision to end the war. Rather the decision to end it on terms in negotiation with Japan or unconditionally (the latter being the outcome). When you see it the way I see it then there is no doubt that the Americans committed an atrocity as the dropping of the bombs was used to gain leverage over an already defeated enemy.
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08-07-2010, 11:17 PM
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08-08-2010, 01:55 AM
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The nonsense story that Japan would have surrendered shortly without the dropping of the bombs is easy to sell now, but back in 1945 when the cost in lives for even a small island ran into the tens of thousands it was not believable. My grandfather fought in the Pacific during the war, and he was one of the few survivors left in his outfit when it was over. He was present for the signing of the surrender on the battleship Missouri. Most of his friends and fellow soldiers died during the war, and those captured by the Japanese early on suffered incredible hardship. Ronin, large numbers of soldiers from your country were captured by the Japanese during the war in the fighting in Malaya and at the surrender of Singapore. Perhaps you should read their stories to find out who the good guys really were. They will tell you that even after the dropping of the bombs, the commanders of the prison camps told them daily that Japan would never lose, even if the war were to last 100 years. They were given tiny rations of food, so many of them starved. They were never given any medicines of any kind, so many succumbed to tropical diseases. They were beaten and tortured almost daily. They were used as slave laborers, building airfields, railways, working in mines, etc. The unlucky ones were sent to Japan's Unit 731 in China, where they were subjected to barbaric medical tests, or used as live guinea pigs to check the effectiveness of new grenades, rifles, and other weapons. Few of those captured by the Japanese during their victories in 1941 lived to tell the tale, and the average weight of these POWs in 1945 was under 90 pounds. In contrast, my girlfriend's grandfather was captured by American soldiers during the war, and he was well treated. Japanese prisoners were not starved, beaten, forced to do slave labor, or denied medical help for injuries or wounds received in battle. Did you know that many of the German soldiers captured by America during the war refused to return to Germany when it ended? Many of them remained in America, got married, and never left. One of these men was the grandfather of one of my high school friends. These obvious facts should give anyone with the ability to think the correct idea as to who were the good guys during the war. In the more distant islands in the Pacific news of the surrender was slow to come, and Japanese soldiers continued to fight. Many who heard the news didn't believe it and refused to surrender, or simply they killed themselves rather than submit to it. Before the surrender Japanese soldiers killed themselves and others (including Japanese civilians) so they couldn't surrender or be captured. The war ended only 65 years ago, it's amazing how few people know anything about it. Not everyone in Japan believes the bombs were unnecessary, by the way. Many admit that were it not for the bombs Japan may not have surrendered until there was nothing left of it. A senior member of the Japanese government stated such last year, and then resigned his position. But of course, these opinions are never shared on August 6th, which is the national day of people feeling sorry for themselves for having had to eat the foul soup which they themselves made.
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