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08-09-2010, 03:01 AM
Germany didn't start ww1, they were blamed at the end because they were the strongest of the axis. Plus France wanted payback for thier humilation dureing the Franco, Prussian war barely 20 years before. The main point though is that that peace treaty had conditions set by the winners, not the loosers.
Yes, inforcement was severaly lacking, if Britain and France had acted the moment Germany started overstepping it's bounds back in the mid 30's it might have stoped the whole thing before it got rolling. Ronin4hire; I don't really feel any need to justify the bombs, they were tools we used to win, same as we used flame throwers, fire bombs, battleships, tanks, land mines, machine guns. The only difference is the scale the bombs have in destruction, the speed at wich they can destroy and the relative ease it is to do so. They can do in seconds what it would normally take an army days to do. Still, wether an army is used via artillery for days on end, a fleet of planes drop firebombs for three nights or one nuke, the end result is the same, wich is the intent from the begining. The only real difference is the numbers of your own troops you put at risk. Let's face it, war isn't "moral" to begin with, once that line has been crossed you can kinda throw out "morality" as any type of basis for arguement. War is violence, death and destruction. So best to get it over with as fast as possible. General Lee himself declared "it is good that war is so terrible, or I fear we would become to fond of it." Much truth there is in that, because as savage as world war 2 was, we were back at in not 5 years later in Korea. Then again in Vietnam 13 years after that. Considering how much everyone claims to hate war we humans certainly devote alot of time/blood and humanity fighting them. 
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08-09-2010, 03:04 AM
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But I can respect that position. It just annoys me when people try to justify such a terrible event. You cant justify it... only understand it and feel sympathy for the victims.
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08-09-2010, 08:58 AM
Yes but you don't seem to have any sympathy for all the atrocities-- as though that doesn't matter at all.
If it has been a member of y our family that suffered I wonder how you would feel then. Of course I hate the fact of the bombs but we were bombed here in UK with non atom bombs thats not alot of fun either and all the fire bombing was shocking and terrible--some times it takes drastic actions to bring results. We can't alter the facts that two bombs were dropped-- It happened-- we all just need to learn the lessons--- but I doubt we ever will.
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08-09-2010, 09:02 AM
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This is a thread about the dropping of a bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Were the atrocities you mentioned tragic too? Yes of course they were and I have sympathy for the victims of Japanese atrocities. They are not relevant to this discussion though.
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08-09-2010, 09:09 AM
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It sso easy to say this shoud not have happened--but it DID. something drastic had to stop that terrible war. Read more about it-- ALl wars are terrible yet we continually kill each other. WHY? It should always be a reminder to the world just as chernobyl was. There were constant H bomb tests. I belonged to the civil defence here in UK and the rubbish we were taught to do in case there was a nuclear attack Pitiful. Yes I feel strongly for all those victims who suffer because of the radiation. We humans are a cruel race. I hate all wars. Yet since time began we have fought each other. If deterrents help to prevent further wars-- then they serve their purpose but unfortunately? Okay ronin hire I repeat myself-- So what? Was New Zealand attacked?
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08-09-2010, 09:12 AM
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were you in Okinawa? did You fight? How can you say its not relevant to this thread? you are crazy. If what led up to the dropping of those bombs is not relevant then I don't know what is. Its as though none of that mattered.
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08-09-2010, 09:20 AM
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Go back... read it... and then tell me how its relevant to what Ive been saying. Let me try and get my point across with an analogy that is easy to understand... was colonialism justified? slavery? I understand that it was "the norm" during that time. I would never try to justify it though which is what some people (mostly Americans but I suppose not restricted to them) try to do regarding the atomic bombs. Furthermore... the people that fought in the war were not the decision makers and at that stage of the war, the Japanese were of no threat to the US so for that reason alone your post makes no sense.
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08-09-2010, 09:24 AM
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Even if NZ had been attacked though... why would that matter? I wasnt alive at the time and I like to think that I would still be capable of coming to this conclusion as I believe my position is as rational as one could have. (Im open to being corrected however no one has done it yet)
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08-09-2010, 10:08 AM
ah well-- as far as I am concerned I will leave you to your own thoughts.
No it should not have happened but then if Japan had not attacked Pearl Harbor--? I was aroung during ww2 in London-- I did not exactly enjoy being bombed night after night. I am a woman-- do you expect me to be rational? surely the reason for the Japanese meeting at Hiroshima was to try to prevent further Nuclear attacks -- after all far worse devastation will occur if they Are used again as they will be so much more powerful. Isn't their message to STOP nuclear proliferation?. enemies hate one another-- I hated the germans. We can all sit on our high horses but unless we were literally involved and fighting-- what do we really know? I also hated the japanese after I heard about the terrible cruelty to POWs. and to other Asian nations. It was only when I met a japanese lady here in UK that I have been delving further into history and honestly being shocked. She is certainly unawre of what really happened-- and goes on about taking the ASIAN countries out of western Hands-- but the way they went about it? Yes our country has much to answer for all through history also. What she did to her own people is ghastly enough. The Bible is full of wars-- so I guess since time began and until we blow ourselves to smithereens so it will always be.
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08-09-2010, 10:40 AM
I would say that all the things you listed are also atrocities and I agree with your message that overall... war sucks
But I think in order to do so we cant take a relativistic approach to justifying past events. All the things you talk about... Germany bombing Britain, Japan attacking Asian countries and torturing POWs... they are all atrocities too that I condemn. I think if we are going to be honest... the Allies too committed atrocities and to try and justify means maybe we havent learnt that much. Anyway.... Im sorry you had to live through such horror and Im happy that you seem to be on a journey of discovery concerning Japan and Germany. And for what its worth... I think women are just as capable of rational thinking as men! So yes I DO expect rational thinking from you 
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