Mosque at Ground Zero

[YukisUke]

Originally Posted by willgoestocollege

What do you guys think about the mosque being built at Ground Zero?

I say let them build their damn mosque. I don't see any problem with it. Other people are saying that its wrong, but I don't. Every person should have the right to practice their religion freely. Let them do that!!!

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Jaydelart

That's a very good point, but, once again, I'm not suggesting for it NOT to be built -- just to be built somewhere else. I don't share those specific beliefs, but we do share a somewhat common conclusion: "maybe not there."

The way I see it, a lot has been done to supress certain actions in order to avoid offending certain people. We can't say or do certain things because it can be misinterpreted, even if it was not within our intention. Ironically, one could argue that this also is a form of tolerance of ignorance. From this standpoint, in this case, the party making the decision is a party that has been protected by political correctness, and yet will not simply improvise a more peaceful solution for others when given the option. Whether or not they are ignorant has limited relevance unless, frankly, people are being physically hurt. In which case, I say build-baby-build.

I'm not supporting forcing anyone to do anything -- or not doing anything...
I just dislike the way things are being handled.

Fair enough.

You have a more pragmatic, realistic approach which I think is a valid one

For me though... this has little to do with the Islamic building, or Islam or even religion itself and more to do with defending a principle that I believe in.

And I think that for anyone who is not a resident of New York who has an opinion on this (which is not the same or similar in the pragmatic approach to yours) is also thinking about this in terms of a principle that they think has been violated.

Whether it be that they think the "sacred" landmark of Ground zero is being tarnished and that the Islamic cultural centre is a blasphemy or that the freedom for Muslims to be treated the same as everyone else is at stake.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Erm, I am of the opinion that this topic itself is seriously skirting the rules. As MMM joined in the discussion, I`ll step back and let him make the call - but we do NOT have religious related discussions on JF.

To think point I think the discussion is more political than religious. If that changes (or has changed) I will take the appropriate action.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

In fact it only seems to be a controversy because the republicans want to turn it into a political point scoring issue.

I am seeing this as well, which is making wonder how much attention I should be giving to it...but I am also a sucker.

Originally Posted by noodle

A Quote from Barack Obama's Ground Zero mosque plea will cost him and the Democrats votes - Telegraph

According to a CNN-Opinion Research poll released this week, nearly 70 per cent of Americans oppose the mosque plan.

Here is another article outlining what I meant. Ground Zero mosque plans 'fuelling anti-Muslim protests across US' | World news | The Guardian

I would be curious as to the wording of the question of this poll. Whether it is in the interest of ease, controversy, or promoting ignorance the easy to say "mosque at Ground Zero" phrase is full of errors in four easy words.

I think if the CNN poll asked "Do you think they should build a mosque at Ground Zero" it is easy to expect the mass majority of people would say "No!". I would say no, too. A memorial museum or something along those lines should be built there. Not a mosque, church, 7-11, or P.F. Chang's.

But the proposed Islamic community center isn't at Ground Zero. I think Ground Zero should be treated as hallowed ground, just like Pearl Harbor and the Peace Dome in Hiroshima (one of the only buildings left standing after the dropping of the Atomic Bomb and the home of the Peace Museum there). But blocks away doesn't count.

Anyone who has been to New York understands the meaning of "New York city block" and two blocks away might as well be on a different planet. Where I live I can throw a baseball two blocks. In New York...fuhgetaboutit.

[noodle]

A friend of mine posted this on Facebook. It's worth a watch.

YouTube - Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by noodle

A friend of mine posted this on Facebook. It's worth a watch.

YouTube - Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10

Olbermann is WAY too overdramatic, especially with his comparison with the holocaust and the whole "they came for the.... and I said nothing" routine.

But as much as I hate his presenting style... I agree with him.

[Aniki]

Goddamn muslim terrorists, building a mosque that's not even a mosque couple blocks away from ground zero! I bet they'll be plotting their next terrorist attack there.

[willgoestocollege]

If this Islamic community center was established before the 911 attacks I am sure no one wouldn't really take any notice of it even afterwards.

[komitsuki]

'Ground Zero Mosque' Imam Helped FBI With Counterterrorism Efforts - Yahoo! News

[MMM]

CNN did a survey of Americans and 68% said they didn't believe a mosque should be placed at Ground Zero. I agree with that. Ground Zero should be considered hallowed ground, and there should not be a mosque, church, convenience store, Gap or McDonald's placed there.

The real crime is that the memorial or museum that should be placed there hasn't been built yet.

The Islamic community center, with basketball court and cooking classes that will be built blocks away.

That is not sacred, hallowed ground. If it is, they should probably shut down the adult video store and "gentlemen's club" that exist between the two sites.

[TalnSG]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

Personally, I don't agree with putting a Mosque on/near Ground Zero.

It is not at Ground Zero, it is merely in the neighborhood. A neighborhood with an existing Islamic population. And the tragedy there was not caused by true followers of Islam, but rather a fanatical sect using it as an excuse for hatred and violence. This comparison is similar to calling the Branch Davidians representative of the Church of England .... incorrect even though both are Christian, and offensive to the core group of believers.

According to what I heard on the radio, 70% of New Yorkers don't want the Mosque near there. Despite what everyone else thinks about it, it should be a democracy and if 70% of people don't want it, then it shouldn't be built. (If I've got the stats wrong - sorry, it was really brief on the radio.)

As MMM said there is a question of how the survey was worded. In this case wording it as "at Ground Zero" is extremely prejudicial and misleading. Additionally, there is a question as to just who was surveyed. Did it include the Islamic community? And most importantly what percentage of those surveyed actually live in the area?

As well as a number of other factors, the building is 13 floors high. It's not a modest place of worship, it's a huge 'culture center' which I personally think is kind of... rubbing it in the face of the victims of 9/11.

This is more than a mosque and is indeed a community center. Admittedly 13 stories is no small structure. However, given the location, 13 stories will be quite dwarfed by the surrounding buildings. We are talking about a part of Manhattan where I would expect the majority of buildings are 40 or more stories in height. Additionally, to find any less of a structure being built by any religious community in a major metropolitan city such as NY, LA, Houston, Chicago or Dallas would be extremely rare. In Dallas, they are usually only about 4-6 stories tall, but frequently cover more than a square mile of land - which is impractical in Manhattan.

As for the opinions of the 9/11 victims families, I would hope they would appreciate an end to the emotional wrangling that politicians and some religious figures insist on using them for. It is time to finish the memorial and treat is as a memorial, not an open wound to continue prodding.