Mosque at Ground Zero

[TalnSG]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

I'm sorry if you don't agree with me but I am allowed an opinion whether you think it's childish or not.

I didn't mention anything about any religion so I don't know what you are talking about. If the majority of people don't want it there, then it shouldn't be there, that's democracy. Considering I'm English it's really got nothing to do with me and I can only go on what the actual people in New York think.

I didn't see any reference to your opinion being childish, though I will admit to inferring that it was ill-considered.

When you discussed a faith-based community center that is referring to religion.

As for majority opinions, in both the U.S. and the U.K. (unless things have changed since Prince Charles's last major controversial building project) the majority opinion is not consulted for construction of buildings.

If the property owner applies for a building permit and the details of the planned structure are within the building codes, the building goes up.

There are rare instances for public safety where some businesses are not permitted to use the building (in Dallas it can't be sexually oriented within a certain distance of a school or day-care), but that granting the right to build is constutionally protected against anything referring to the religious beliefs of its owner or other potential users/occupants.

Trust me, if it were not I would be protesting in person some of the construction near my home.

[TalnSG]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

I know how this will end - it will end in circles with no-one budging opinions as all debates of this kind end up. I personally feel it's insensative to put a mosque near Ground Zero, because the poll showed that the majority of people don't want it there. That's the only poll we've got, regardless of how people may argue it's validity, that's all I've got to go on as an outsider looking in.

I would say the same whatever kind of building it was, but I doubt other buildings wouldn't reach news in the UK.

[Isn't this verging on the topic of religion which we need to stay away from?]

Oh, I wouldn't say there won't be some budging on this because you finished with an excellent summation of what is the most offensive part of the whole issue for me. People are going to have these emotional, and unfortunately too often prejudicial, reactions to events. I don't approve, but I do understand and accept that it will happen.

However, it was the prejudicial survey by CNN with no rebuttal whatsoever, and the insensitive raising of the "issue" on an international scale that was most offensive to me. You are absolutely correct that without the potential for fomenting hatred of a minority group of people, CNN nor anyone else, would have had any reason to make a major news story out of someone applying for a permit to build a neighborhood community center.

This is blatant scandal mongering at the expensive of those suffering most from the events of 9/11 and it is disgraceful.

[TalnSG]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

So the fact that people brought it up is racism?

No; the intent of those who have perpetuated it as a "Ground Zero Mosque" rather than a neighorhood Islamic community center would be either racist or completely ignorant..... and I have no patience for either in the news media.

[MMM]

Miss Misa, without that poll, what would you think?

[TalnSG]

MMM. let's examine the poll that is the source of the controversy.

It was not conducted by CNN. It was conducted by a private company owned by who-knows-what. The first publication of it was in Time Magazine.

But when the results were broken down, get a load of a bit clearer truth....

"Broken down by borough, Manhattan was the most in favor of the mosque, with only 36 percent of residents against it. On the other end of the spectrum was Staten Island, where 73 percent of respondents were opposed."

Ground Zero is in Manhattan if anyone missed that point and those in Manhattan have the least objections. So the rest of the world needs to butt out of their business.

Not only that, there is no part of it to be a mosque and no one has objected to the regular Islmaic prayers have been conducted there ever since 9/11 for the Islamic victims that were killed at the Towers.

[manganimefan227]

I'm getting tired of this National "Muslim" hate I see so often. It's really sad that this is a debate. There are opposing views I can understand I can only imagine what it's like for these families. Still, it would be nice if we could accept Muslims as normal people and not hate on them so much . . .


No. 9/11 does not justify hating all Muslims. Nine years ago it could be understood a little, now it's just sad in most cases


I can however, sympathize with those involved a little. I just hope that one day, even they will be able to see Muslims as normal people who deserve an equal chance.

[MMM]

I don't think the question is whether or not someone likes Islam, but whether or not the community has the right to build a community center in Manhattan.

I think it is hard to deny the fact that they are acting perfectly within their rights.

So what is the argument against? It's mostly emotional. "It doesn't feel right","It's in bad taste","It feels too close"

People have the right to have those feelings, but I don't think it is fair to put the responsibility of someone's feelings on a community center.

[TalnSG]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

Yeah there is nothing really solid I can argue against. I just can't help feeling it is in 'bad taste.' Are they wanting to do it on purpose knowing that it's bad taste or what? Couldn't they just do it somewhere else to avoid trouble, or are they purposely trying to provoke trouble? It just brings up all those annoying questions in my mind that make me feel uncomfortable to think about.

At one point they were actually asked to consider another location. But this location is in the community it will serve and nothing else was viable in a more remote location. To build a community center where the members of the community cannot get to it reasonably is a wasted effort.

Its been more 15 years since I was in that neighboorhood, so I don't recall how far 2 blocks would be but it certainly isn't all that close.

I do understand learned dislikes. My father taught foreign students and I have a deep seated distrust and dislike for a certain nationalities that I had problems with during that time. I have to suppress my gut reaction when I meet someone from those countries that I will probably never outlive. (Ironically one of them is an Islamic country) But I refuse to allow other people to be judged by what I was subjected to years ago by a series of individuals, simply because their culture/government endorsed their behavior at that point in history.

[ARCFLASH]

9/11 was an inside job, clearly.

There's so much evidence on it that it just boggles my mind how people are still in the dark about it after 9 whole frikken years LOL.

but yeah I think they've approved that Mosque on purpose, they want to get the American people to hate the Muslim people so that could further their cause for the wars in Iraq + Afghanistan and I'm guessing pretty soon Iran as well. Not saying I sympathize for the Sharia Law, their Prophet Mohammad or the Hadith, in fact I'm out right against Islam as a "religion" simply because it's way too radical to adapt in western culture, just saying that all this is orchestrated for a reason.

[Aniki]

Gotta love them conspiracy theories and the nutjobs that breed them.