Should Japan distance herself from the U.S.?

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

I personally believe it is in Japanese best interest to distance ourselves from the U.S.

1) have our own military and have the U.S. forces leave
2) work on closer ties with China and SEA.
3) don't depend on the U.S. market, work on markets everywhere.
4) Balance the economy by importing far less expensive fashion goods.

Japan doesn't have to be a huge economy to have a healthy economy and we wouldn't need U.S. protection from our neighbors if we didn't side with the U.S. in the first place.

4) Importing less expensive fashion goods will not balance the economy. The majority of goods imported by Japan are food and energy, expensive fashion goods make only a ghost of a fraction of the total goods which Japan imports.

3) The US market is the largest in the world, equaling roughly the amount of the rest of the world combined. Japan markets their products just as heavily to the rest of the world, but high taxation in Europe and lack of money in other economies limits how much can be sold there.

2) China is more of a competitor than a friend to Japan, and though ties have grown closer over the decades, Japan knows that any great gains in the Chinese economy in the future will come at great cost to the Japanese economy. Economists and business people in Japan recognize China as a growing power and potential customer, but they are actually increasing their ties to America, just as Korea, Taiwan, and even Vietnam are.

1) Japan is constitutionally banned from having a standing military. This constitutional ban would be exceedingly difficult to change even if the people wanted to do it, and at the moment, they don't. Japan pays for half the expenses of stationing American military forces in Japan, which provides them with the help of the world's largest and most advanced military, and at a low cost.

You have to realize that Japan is a small island nation with limited resources, and with it's current population levels it is impossible for Japan to be self-sufficient. The Japanese are aware of this, and have built their economy accordingly, and they have done a good job under the circumstances; Japanese enjoy the highest standard of living in Asia.

The number one subject in Japanese universities is and has for decades been economics, and the Japanese understand a great deal about this subject. All of the suggestions you have listed above have been discussed at length, and found to be unworkable or to have no merit.

The Japanese, like anyone else, put themselves first when it comes to deciding important policies, but even so, they believe that the course they have followed since the end of the war has been the best one, as it has brought them the highest level of prosperity they have ever known.

The current system may not be perfect, but then there is no such thing as a perfect system, and for all it's faults, it has worked quite well.

[GoNative]

As far as I can tell the political issues between the two countries have had little effect on the economic relations between China and Japan. They have the 3rd largest trading relationship in the world. Political relations should improve but both countries have a lot of mostly historical issues with the other and these will take time to mend, especially with both being very proud nations making compomise difficult to reach at times.
If Japan really wants to improve relations with SEA it really needs to accept responisbility, apologise and possibly make some reparations for the damage it caused during WWII. It's arrogant dismisal of such issues in the past hasn't helped it one bit.

The real question here is what benefits would Japan receive by distancing itself from the US? How would it help Japan? The US is still Japans biggest trading partner and throughout it's history I believe it's had a significant trade surplus with the US. Some political distancing may not be a bad thing but not at the cost of trade relations.

[Jeshire]

I, personally (while knowing it's not at all realistic), Think it is stupid to even be debating about such things, I really just wish we all just got along! Then again, this is coming just from me and my perspective- But, will something like distancing yourself from an economical monster like the U.S. really help Japan at all? And is it really in Japan's greatest interest? I hate my country with a passion for it's government, and being over-enthusiastic about itself, and I may only have 16 years of experience but we have one hell of an army, as far as I'm concerned. And I agree, it would only help make Japan the "red flag" to the bulls like North Korea.

[Sangetsu]

After the end of the war Japan had no choice but to become close to America as their unconditional surrender put Japan under full American control. The end of the war completely broke down the prewar government and industrial systems in which a limited number of people and companies controlled the vast majority of land and industry. Following the war, ownership of the land and industry was greatly redistributed to the people, and for the first time in memorable history Japanese farmers actually owned the farms they worked.

Douglas MacArthur was instrumental in designing the framework of modern Japan, as he had more or less a free hand in administering the country. The generation of Japanese which followed the war are called "MacArthur's Children", and though MacArthur was the man primarily in charge of Japan's military defeat, he enjoyed incredible respect in the country following the war. Some even say that he was more loved in Japan than he was in America.

As a virtual American colony during the early postwar years, Japan's close relationship with the US was inevitable. In the years that followed Japan became increasingly independent and autonomous, but the economic and even ideological relationship became stronger. The US and Japan colluded together during the Cold War to prevent the spread of communism in Asia, and Japan was instrumental (though not obviously so) to America during the Korean and Vietnam wars.

In order to encourage Japanese capitalism (and thwart the rise of Asian socialism) Japan was encouraged by America to increase it's industry and exports, and America itself was the largest consumer of these.

Obvious cultural differences aside, Japan and America are more closely related to one another than they are to any other country. This has benefited both countries.

What benefit would it be for Japan to open a closer partnership to China? China can not and will not become the world's largest economy unless it becomes as close to America as Japan has been.

Korea has not become closer to China. They have invested in China out of professional interest, but Korea knows that China is the one who pulls North Korea's strings, so there will never be a close relationship between the two. Taiwan will never become close to China for the obvious reasons, and South East Asia's only other socialist country, Vietnam, has been quietly severing it's ties with China and increasing it's friendship with America. For the first time since the end of the Vietnam war, an American Navy carrier group has entered Vietnamese waters at the behest of the Vietnamese.

The powers-that-be in Asia are afraid of a too-strong China, and they wish to retain their independence. Their only hope of retaining such independence is through closer ties with America. The European economy cannot match America's, and Europe no longer possesses the military necessary power to keep China at bay. If you haven't been watching the news in recent months, America has been slowly building up it's military presence in Asia. In addition to the above mentioned carrier group now off Vietnam, 3 ballistic missile submarines have also been deployed around Asia. This tends to show which way the wind is blowing in terms of the rest of Asia's thoughts on China vs America.

[alirz23]

what i would like to say is that we should not worried about USA he is already facing terrible crises their economy is going down day by day.

[samurai007]

Originally Posted by alirz23

what i would like to say is that we should not worried about USA he is already facing terrible crises their economy is going down day by day.

Only until we turn things around... the 2010 election is the start of that, and hopefully 2012 will finish the job.

[chiuchimu]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

I don't know much about the US, honestly. What are the negative effects that Japan are facing from trading with the US? I guess I'm asking, why not?

The US is massive economically and can typically bring a lot of wealth to a country. Similarly, it can also mean that negative effects on the economy are passed on to other countries.

Although Japan sells produces all around the world, Japan relies too heavily on the huge U.S. market for her economy. The U.S. knows this and threatens to restrict or place tariffs on Japanese imports if Japan doesn't side with the U.S.

For more than 50 ,years now, even though the U.S. was changed its position on international issues each time it switches parties, Japan has been in lock step with American. this is obviously not a coincidence. Japan has to side with the U.S. in order to receive favorable trade agreements. I like to point out, this is not the U.S. fault. Japan was a fully welling partner in this relationship. But, this is the current state of affairs.

Having military bases in japan was been the U.S. plan since immediately after WW2. Military bases in Japan checks Russian and Chinese activity. The importance of Japanese bases proved its worth during the Korean war. The whole war was conducted out of Japan. The Russians, Chinese and North Koreans look at the military bases as the first line of intrusion of the U.S. and look at Japan as a puppet state of the U.S. If Japan did not have these bases, Russia and China would not look at Japan as a threat. North Korea is a threat, but if Japan has discussions with China and lets her know Japan wants to remove U.S. presents and needs Chinese protection from NK until Japan's own military is fully built up, I think China would definitely go along. furthermore, good relations with China and Russia means more exporting to those countries as well as low cost labor that can bring down the prices of Japanese goods around the world to compete with say U.S. and Korean goods.

Lately, Japan has a serious problem buying way too much brand named fashion goods like bags perfumes shoes etc..A purse alone cost several hundred dollars. Most of the expendable money made by single women between 20~40 goes to buying this exports. I haven't even included what the boyfriends buy for their girls. I've read that if Japan didn't buy all this brand named fashion stuff and instead bought Japanese goods, the effect of recirculating the money would very well bring Japan out of its 20 year recession. It would be nice if people voluntarily chose a little protectionism on their own, but since that will never happen, I think import restrictions and high tariffs are needed. You can't stop the recession by selling more alone - you have to also stop the bleeding so the money can recirculate.

Anyway, that's what I believe is the current situation between the U.S. and Japan i would be interested to here other opinions or takes on whats really going on and what should be done about it.

[AnnaJapana]

Politics, Politics.

This is why i didnt become a lawyer.

(lol this has nothing to do with that, right) xD

[chiuchimu]

Originally Posted by samurai007

Let me answer those individually:
1) The Japanese already have the self-defense forces, and it's one of the more powerful militaries in the world. I think Japan and the US should have more of a partnership, with Japan assuming more responsibility and the US slowly phasing back, but still keeping a military presence there as a deterrent to attacks from NK and China.

SDF is not strong enough to find off an attack from China NK. China wouldn't even be a threat if U.S. bases weren't there.

Originally Posted by samurai007

Let me answer those individually:
2) They can and should work on repairing relations with China and SEA, but not replace the US with those ties. If China and SEA demand that Japan be hostile to or overly critical of the US in order to be friends, then they aren't friends at all.

Like when the U.S. was pressuring Japan to cut relation with China after the Tienanmen Squire incident? That means U.S. is not our friend either.

Originally Posted by samurai007

Let me answer those individually:
3) Yes, of course they should look for markets everywhere. I think products made in Japan can be found all over the world... surely Europe and other places have Sony and other Japanese items.

If Spain cuts back on Japanese imports, it doesn't cause a recession. With the U.S., it can.

Originally Posted by samurai007

Let me answer those individually:
4) I don't think you balance the economy by allowing or disallowing things to be imported. If a company sends its goods to Japan and they don't sell, then they won't send them as much or at all. If they do sell, they'll send them. Some Japanese are very fashion-conscious and only want expensive brand-name goods. I think the culture needs to become more accepting of non-label goods in order for those items to stop selling as much. Banning their imports will just create a craze to get them, like it used to be with Levi jeans.

I'd prefer a grass-roots movement but if not, laws need to be written. All countries write laws and have agreements about import/export to safeguard their respective economies. Put a 100% tariff on those GUCCI , louis vuitton, and Coach stuff. They make a $50 handbag and sell it for $500 and the stupid girls in Japan buy 5 ~20 each, then there's the clothing, jewelry, makeup, accessories etc... Anyone still wonders why Japan is still in a recession?

Originally Posted by samurai007

Let me answer those individually:
As for your final comment, it's ridiculously naive to think that "not being friends with the US" will appease neighbors like North Korea. In fact, that will be like waving a red cape in front of a bull...

That's backwards, they have aggression towards us because we side with the U.S. and provide U.S. presence in the heart of Asia. It's the same reason the U.S. has such strong feelings against a tiny country called Cuba. Cuba is a few miles from Florida and sided with the Russians. Ever heard of the Cuban missile Crisis? id you think U.S. hated Cuba just because of Castro?

[steven]

chiuchimu, I find myself agreeing with your sentiment about expensive hand bags and all that kinda stuff. I think they're a waste of money and sometimes wonder what people could do if they used their money on more useful things.

However, I'm not so sure that putting an end to that could make such a huge difference. Why are you talking primarily about handbags and fashion goods? Your original statement was that Japan should distance herself from the US. All those fashion goods you've mentioned seem to be from European countries. Do you have any data that would suggest that if Japanese women stopped buying all those imported fashion goods then there would be significant changes economically for Japan?

Sometimes I just don't get why people decide to focus on certain things. Like the other day, I saw a sign in a town nearby that basically said "make sure to buy your cigarettes in your hometown!". Instead of deterring people from smoking, they were basically encouraging it as long as you buy your cigarettes in your hometown. We're talking about getting taxes. They didn't say to buy only Japanese cigarettes either... in otherwords the taxes on imported cigarettes will support whatever town you buy them in. Likewise, I wonder if the same doesn't apply to expensive fashion goods.

Maybe a lot of these goods aren't that expensive, it's just Japan's way of making more money off of them. I doubt anyone here is into this kind of thing, but if you ever look at imported pro audio goods in Japan, the price difference is so extreme it's almost comical. For an example, an API 3124 mic pre will be about $2600 in America while in Japan it costs 390,000円. Given the exchange rate right now, that's paying something like 390,000円 for something that costs 220,000円 somewhere else. That's basically 175%.

Similarly, if you've ever looked at airplane tickets from Japan to the US vs from the US to Japan, you'll notice the prices are about double. Is there an explanation for that? I was always under the impression that it was the Japanese side of things raising the prices for their own benefits.

So while I have no basis other than the simple observations I've made for making this claim, I wonder if Japan isn't making a lot of money off of these imported goods due to taxes.