Should Japan distance herself from the U.S.?

[chiuchimu]

Originally Posted by MMM

I think you are mixing up periods. What hurt the economy was the sky-rocketing gas prices, not cheap Japanese cars.

The period was early 70s to early 80s.
Yes, Japanese cars were better fuel efficient cars. Gas prices were the original reason people turned to imports(later, they just like the cars better). High fuel cost always hurts the economy, so does a lose of market shares in a huge industry like the domestic auto industry.

Originally Posted by MMM

If money moves both ways, then it is good for both economies. Japan has been at the advantage with the trade imbalance with the US for decades, but now China is king of trade imbalances, taking advantage of 10s of billions of dollars from the US every year.

Agreed. But the U.S. trade imbalance was part of the deal with the U.S.-Japan relations. To grow Japan and keep Japan on U.S. side, America let this happen.

Originally Posted by MMM

That's like saying, "If American car companies went bankrupt because they were inferior to Japanese cars then they deserve to go bankrupt."

How is that a false statement?

If it was "Ford when bankrupt because it lost to GM" then that's free market economy.
But we are talking about two different countries with different governments, different economies, and different regulations.

Two reasons why it is different between domestic and import competition:
1) Every country has a right to protect itself including it's industries. Otherwise, no third world country, say Mexico, can develop an auto industry of their own. Outside competition like Japan, Korea, U.S. and Europe will squash it before it even has a chance to grow. Ford shouldn't get protection from GM because they are in the same country. If one disappears, the U.S. still has an auto industry. Look at Japan, Outside of Tokyo city, isn't all the phone lines in all of Japan controlled and owned by U.S. companies? That's because the Japanese Government didn't protect it's phone line companies until they were all gone,swallowed up by U.S. companies, until only one was left- I think called "Tokyo Telephone Company". It's all cell phones now, but this did happen.

2) Some countries aid the development of certain industries: pay for R&D, lower taxes, or have lower environmental manufacturing standards. A company that doesn't have to pay for its own research and development can sell there stuff for much cheaper. A good example could be Korea. I'm not 100% sure but heard something that Korean companies like Hyundai and the Korean government work together. This is part of the reason for Korean product success in resent years. Japan had/(might still have) something like that going on too.

[steven]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

Look at Japan, Outside of Tokyo city, isn't all the phone lines in all of Japan controlled and owned by U.S. companies? That's because the Japanese Government didn't protect it's phone line companies until they were all gone,swallowed up by U.S. companies, until only one was left- I think called "Tokyo Telephone Company". It's all cell phones now, but this did happen.

Maybe you mean Nippon Telegraph and Telephone (NTT)? I'm not sure though... at any rate, I don't live anywhere near Tokyo and they have NTT here.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by steven

Maybe you mean Nippon Telegraph and Telephone (NTT)? I'm not sure though... at any rate, I don't live anywhere near Tokyo and they have NTT here.

This one totally lost me too as NTT is basically the phone line company for all of Japan. I don`t know of any that are controlled by US companies... Let alone all outside of Tokyo. NTT is pretty much a government controlled company - the government holds a third of the stock. ALL the phone lines in Japan belong to NTT, but they rent lines out to other companies who are free to offer different plans through them. Commufa, the one we use, is an easy example. They use NTT lines but offer different services through them. Oh, and even Commufa isn`t a US company. It`s KDDI, a Japanese company.

[chiuchimu]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

This one totally lost me too as NTT is basically the phone line company for all of Japan. I don`t know of any that are controlled by US companies... Let alone all outside of Tokyo. NTT is pretty much a government controlled company - the government holds a third of the stock. ALL the phone lines in Japan belong to NTT, but they rent lines out to other companies who are free to offer different plans through them. Commufa, the one we use, is an easy example. They use NTT lines but offer different services through them. Oh, and even Commufa isn`t a US company. It`s KDDI, a Japanese company.

You're right.

Wow, that was embarrassing. this is really weird for me. I'll explain.

A long while back, before cell phones became popular. I saw a Sunday afternoon news discussion program(one of the networks:ABC, CBS or NBC). This was during a flame point in Japanese exports so the discussion(I thought) was about deregulating Japans domestic telephone service so U.S. companies get a fair chance at the market. The opposition from the Japanese side said deregulation would destroy the only phone company centered in Tokyo. American phone companies already control the rest of Japan. That's how I remember the show. It was an interesting topic so I remember it even day. But obviously I got something wrong.

Is there someone who remembers this incident? some time during the 80s to 90s. Since I got it wrong I'll rephrase my question as:

Any info one telephone discussion by U.S. Japan 80~90s
1) something about Japan's only stronghold in tokyo.
2) America in rest of Japan related to telephone services.
Thanks for any help.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

If it was "Ford when bankrupt because it lost to GM" then that's free market economy.
But we are talking about two different countries with different governments, different economies, and different regulations.

Two reasons why it is different between domestic and import competition:
1) Every country has a right to protect itself including it's industries. Otherwise, no third world country, say Mexico, can develop an auto industry of their own. Outside competition like Japan, Korea, U.S. and Europe will squash it before it even has a chance to grow. Ford shouldn't get protection from GM because they are in the same country. If one disappears, the U.S. still has an auto industry. Look at Japan, Outside of Tokyo city, isn't all the phone lines in all of Japan controlled and owned by U.S. companies? That's because the Japanese Government didn't protect it's phone line companies until they were all gone,swallowed up by U.S. companies, until only one was left- I think called "Tokyo Telephone Company". It's all cell phones now, but this did happen.

2) Some countries aid the development of certain industries: pay for R&D, lower taxes, or have lower environmental manufacturing standards. A company that doesn't have to pay for its own research and development can sell there stuff for much cheaper. A good example could be Korea. I'm not 100% sure but heard something that Korean companies like Hyundai and the Korean government work together. This is part of the reason for Korean product success in resent years. Japan had/(might still have) something like that going on too.

But the standards of manufacturing have to fit with each country's regulations. The reason there are tariffs are go keep what you are describing from happening. I do not know why the tariff imbalance was agreed to on America's side, but if Americans had been forced to only drive American cars when prices were doubling and tripling, the economy would have gone into depression. So you are saying we should have sacrificed the country to save Ford and GM?

[chiuchimu]

Originally Posted by MMM

But the standards of manufacturing have to fit with each country's regulations. The reason there are tariffs are go keep what you are describing from happening. I do not know why the tariff imbalance was agreed to on America's side, but if Americans had been forced to only drive American cars when prices were doubling and tripling, the economy would have gone into depression. So you are saying we should have sacrificed the country to save Ford and GM?

No proof that excluding imports would have forced a recession.

Didn't Obama bailout GM because GM's bankruptcy would have hurt an already low U.S. economy. The U.S. gov bought the car company to save it.

[Mazikeen]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

Didn't Obama bailout GM because GM's bankruptcy would have hurt an already low U.S. economy. The U.S. gov bought the car company to save it.

Yes, I believe that's the reason Obama initiated the purchase of GM. It's bankruptcy would have definitely hurt the US economy. This bad economy in the USA is because of the tax breaks given over the past 10 years by the Bush administration. Waging war is an expensive business, and lowering taxes, while we should have been raising them is what I feel brought on this bad economy.

We're going to obviously pull out of it, and Japan will do the same. We just have to get our priorities in order.

In regards to whether or not Japan should distance itself from the US, it would be incredibly ignorant of the Japanese government to do that. They're backwards thinking enough without allowing the suicide of their partnership with the USA.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

No proof that excluding imports would have forced a recession.

Didn't Obama bailout GM because GM's bankruptcy would have hurt an already low U.S. economy. The U.S. gov bought the car company to save it.

And there is no proof it wouldn't. We are both speculating.

[Yojimbo]

What most of the Americans know about Cuba is pure propaganda against socialism. Nothing more...

First of all, the reason of USA hating Cuba is not "human rights" or "Nuclear Crisis"... (btw USA hating a country because of nuclear terror or human rights -which never happened-? LoL. It's ironic if you look USA's history)

If you know about history of Cuba, you can see why USA hate Cuba after revolution. Before 26th of July Movement, in USA backed up Batista's regime Cuba was exploited by USA's companies and American Mafia. Almost %70 of the land was owned by those companies, and native Cubans life conditions was just horrible. Diseases like typhoid, dysentery, measles etc and malnutrition were reasons of major deaths, rate of baby-deaths were around %6. Literacy rate was one of the lowest around the world. There were just one medical school. Life expectancy was under 60. And you know what? USA never use that "human rights" arguments against Cuba that time... Hmmm... Maybe it's because they were the reason of that tyranny.

People who protest that tyranny of USA backed up Batista's regime were tortured and killed. Almost 20.000 people killed just before revolution movement started. (And for BBC Che is "the" terrorist one who fight against that tyranny... Hmmm)

With 26th of July Movement, USA companies kicked out from Cuba and Cuba gain their freedom. Thats why USA hates Cuba and brainwashing American people against it. Couse with that revolution they simply lost one of their cheap-labor sources. Morely, they are afraid of Cuban revolution cause it can be an example for countries in Africa, Asia and Latin America which are exploited by imperialism.

If you still think Fidel is an "evil dictator". Just compare Cubans life standarts after revolution with Batista's regime. Let me help you;

In Cuba illiteracy is 0.2% while in Latin America it is 11.7%.

Infant mortality rate in Cuba is %0,6 .

Life expectancy is 76.5% in Cuba while in Latin America it is 70 years.

Primary school enrollment in Cuba is 100% while in Latin America it is 92%.

Secondary school enrollment in Cuba is 99.7% while in Latin America it is a dismal 52%.

While 100% of the students in elementary school achieve grade level only 76% achieve it Latin America.

In Latin America 12% of the population is illiterate, that is 42 million do not know how to read and write. Furthermore, there are 110 million people who never finished elementary school. None of them Cubans.

There are 860 million absolute illiterates in the world. None of them Cubans. Let us not count the political illiterates, as this would be a huge amount.

In Cuba there are 590 doctors for every 100 thousand persons, while in Latin America there are only 160 doctors for every 100 thousand.

Cuba has the highest percentage of doctors per person in the world.

Aids in Cuba is only 0.05% while in Latin America it is 0.5%.

According to UNESCO Cuba has the lowest illiteracy rate and the highest matriculation rate of all the countries in Latin America.

In a report given by UNESCO in 1999 on education encompassing 13 Latin American countries, Cuban students rank number one in knowledge in all subject areas. In Cuba, based on a population of approximate 11 million, more than 500 thousand have a university degree; 4 million are currently enrolled in a university.

In 2003 CEPAL (UN org) points out that 20% or 102 million people in Latin America and in the Caribbean live in extreme poverty. None of them are Cubans.

In Honduras 67% of the population live in brutal misery. None of them are Cubans.

In Latin America, 54 million in Latin America have malnutrition. None of them Cubans.

In Mexico 34% of the children below 5 years old suffer chronic malnutrition.

In Guatemala this figure reaches 50%.

Every 7 seconds a child below 10 years old dies of hunger. None of them Cuban children.

According to the UN 842 million people suffer from chronic malnutrition. None of them Cubans.

Yeah Cuba's economy is not great, thanks to embargo and pressure of USA . And Yeah, Cuba is a socialist country, so for luxury of the bourgeois, millions of proletariats' labor dont get exploited. Sorry for that Yeah in Cuba there are not HD tv's in %2 of the public, cause they choose a country which there are no-one who live without home, without food, without health-care, without education instead... They give best to their people with their free education and health-care system.

"North Americans don't understand... that our country is not just Cuba; our country is also humanity." Fidel Castro



Yeah, Cuba got problems either which we can criticise, but there are no perfect country. You dont have to be a socialist to respect Cuba's decision. Stop being that blind!

While, because of capitalism billions of people live in misery in the world, exploited by the system, and social-contradictions became more visible each day; how can we talk about "human rights" and blame Cuba? Cuba should be the last country we can blame if that is the case. And USA is the last country to talk about "human rights".

And about that "dictatorship" stuff... Did you ever research Cuba's election system? It's not even close to a dictatorship. With local managements and bottom-up organizations in Cuba, there are direct democracy. Not a bourgeois democracy like in capitalist countries. It's the just opposite of dictatorship. Fidel Castro which USA called "dictator" get elected each time around %90 of the publics votes. You can research more about their election system from reliable resources in the web.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Yojimbo

Infant mortality rate in Cuba is 6.2% while in Latin America it is 32%.

You are saying one in three babies in Latin America dies?

I think you need to check your sources.

Latin American Infant Mortality Rates